HOF league discussion

General talk about Dynasty Leagues.
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ArrylT
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Re: HOF league discussion

Postby ArrylT » Wed Apr 18, 2018 7:42 pm

In a valuation sense I would say that Golden Tate, in 12 team ppr terms, should be worth a mid-late 1st at the very least. But in a large league close to the draft, with lots of savvy owners who hold their cards close to their vest, try getting that for him (and believe me I did).

I think that in a 16 team league, QB values can be / should be closer to 12 team Superflex than 12 team 1 QB. Sort of like TE Premium of 1.5 ppr bumps TEs, but not to the extent that a 2 TE league would.

As such, I would price Trubiskys value to me, as being similar to Tates, when it comes to 1st round picks. In the rookie last year Trubisky, Watson and Mahomes basically went 21-23 and I would be quite surprised if the Watson or Mahomes owner(s) would sell either for a price less than say a Tate - but that is up to them to disclose. IE their prices have gone up from the rookie cost.

So basically, you could say that it was a trade of 2 different players, each of whom likely had more value to their owners, than they would get on the open market if cashed in for draft picks.

But I am sure some might say - you just traded Golden Tate a perennial WR2 with 90+ catch potential for a QB who might be Joe Flacco at best - and I would have to say yes yes I did.
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Re: HOF league discussion

Postby ericanadian » Thu Apr 19, 2018 3:49 am

On my end, I was looking to move Trubisky shortly after they brought in Nagy. It's not that I think Nagy is a bad coach, but I believe strongly in stability for QB development and that goes doubly for a guy who came out early from college. I'm not sure that Tate is a great fit given the fact I'm rebuilding, but he should have a few years of value and I suspect I'll be able to grab another QB due to owning half the second round.
All I Der Is Win - 16 Team IDP League (Pass TD 6pts)

QB - Stafford, Stroud, Tune
RB - Swift, Hall, Penny, Bigsby, Ford
WR - Pittman, Olave, Di. Johnson, G. Wilson, J. Williams, Metchie, Robinson, M. Wilson
TE - Okonkwo, Schoonmaker
LB - Brooks, R. Smith, Phillips
DL - Crosby, Allen, Simmons
DB - D. James, Baker, Delpit
K - Just a stupid kicker

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Re: HOF league discussion

Postby maxhyde » Thu Apr 19, 2018 9:18 am

Not great but I don't hate it either I guess.
Limited options for trade partners with a guy like Tate in established leagues. Think maybe you could have landed a better QB but who knows how Trubisky will look this year. ARob owners I guess hope he is awesome or at the very least capable

However I am curious why you think QB's won't be around at 2.07. Historically this league hasn't used high draft picks on QB's and very few teams need QB's so they likely won't be pushed ahead of where they might go
DLF HOF League 16 team PPR
QB: Brees, Bradford, Lock(3.07)
RB: David Johnson, Penny, Sanders(1.07), Montgomery(1.06), Love(2.07) Bernard, MLynch, Morris, TJLogan, Joe Williams, Shaun Wilson
WR: Jeffery,Cooper, Josh Gordon, Dede Westbrook, Cam Meredith, Brice Butler, Chester Rogers, Lockett, Switzer, Malone, Cain (IR)
TE: Gronk, Swaim, Maxx Williams

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Re: HOF league discussion

Postby ArrylT » Thu Apr 19, 2018 3:12 pm

maxhyde wrote: Thu Apr 19, 2018 9:18 am Not great but I don't hate it either I guess.
Limited options for trade partners with a guy like Tate in established leagues. Think maybe you could have landed a better QB but who knows how Trubisky will look this year. ARob owners I guess hope he is awesome or at the very least capable

However I am curious why you think QB's won't be around at 2.07. Historically this league hasn't used high draft picks on QB's and very few teams need QB's so they likely won't be pushed ahead of where they might go
Combination of things

1 -Trubisky, Mahomes & Watson went picks 21-23 back to back to back last year.

2 - I would agree that many teams need QBs but at the same time it looks like a lot could use a backup and this is an opportune time for many teams to get one.

3 - Without trying to give anything away, I am not sold on all of the top QBs, and if the QB that is still available at 2.07 is not one I am a fan of I think I'll likely pass - especially now that I got Trubisky.

Obviously if the league collectively decides to pass on QB, and the #1 QB on my board is still available at 2.07 then I wont complain - just prepping for the 'worst' - that only QBs I am not high on and are in bad situations type scenario ...
Please speak to clarion contrarion before considering the use of vetos..

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Re: HOF league discussion

Postby maxhyde » Fri Apr 20, 2018 12:25 pm

ArrylT wrote: Thu Apr 19, 2018 3:12 pm
maxhyde wrote: Thu Apr 19, 2018 9:18 am Not great but I don't hate it either I guess.
Limited options for trade partners with a guy like Tate in established leagues. Think maybe you could have landed a better QB but who knows how Trubisky will look this year. ARob owners I guess hope he is awesome or at the very least capable

However I am curious why you think QB's won't be around at 2.07. Historically this league hasn't used high draft picks on QB's and very few teams need QB's so they likely won't be pushed ahead of where they might go
Combination of things

1 -Trubisky, Mahomes & Watson went picks 21-23 back to back to back last year.

2 - I would agree that many teams need QBs but at the same time it looks like a lot could use a backup and this is an opportune time for many teams to get one.

3 - Without trying to give anything away, I am not sold on all of the top QBs, and if the QB that is still available at 2.07 is not one I am a fan of I think I'll likely pass - especially now that I got Trubisky.

Obviously if the league collectively decides to pass on QB, and the #1 QB on my board is still available at 2.07 then I wont complain - just prepping for the 'worst' - that only QBs I am not high on and are in bad situations type scenario ...
So wait...the NFL with the hundreds of millions spent on draft prep can't ever seem to get picking franchise QB's right but you want to be selective on a less important position in a rookie draft? Situation can change so quickly in the NFL I rarely have guys I won't draft where I think they are the best player. I really like 2 of the QB's and not as high on the other 3 but still think all 5 and a couple stragglers could have careers in the NFL with varying levels of success. if any of the top 5 QB's get to 2.14 pretty sure I will select them whether I think they can succeed or not and I hate drafting QB's in 1QB leagues...like really hate it

Yeah all those QB's went around there last year Winston went in the 1st I think and Mariota right around 2.07. I think all these QB's are better than last years offerings (read into it what you will) but in a 1QB league there will be some of us(me) that will really resist taking QB's over skill positions with value (RB/WR)
DLF HOF League 16 team PPR
QB: Brees, Bradford, Lock(3.07)
RB: David Johnson, Penny, Sanders(1.07), Montgomery(1.06), Love(2.07) Bernard, MLynch, Morris, TJLogan, Joe Williams, Shaun Wilson
WR: Jeffery,Cooper, Josh Gordon, Dede Westbrook, Cam Meredith, Brice Butler, Chester Rogers, Lockett, Switzer, Malone, Cain (IR)
TE: Gronk, Swaim, Maxx Williams

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Re: HOF league discussion

Postby ArrylT » Fri Apr 20, 2018 3:27 pm

maxhyde wrote: Fri Apr 20, 2018 12:25 pm
ArrylT wrote: Thu Apr 19, 2018 3:12 pm
maxhyde wrote: Thu Apr 19, 2018 9:18 am Not great but I don't hate it either I guess.
Limited options for trade partners with a guy like Tate in established leagues. Think maybe you could have landed a better QB but who knows how Trubisky will look this year. ARob owners I guess hope he is awesome or at the very least capable

However I am curious why you think QB's won't be around at 2.07. Historically this league hasn't used high draft picks on QB's and very few teams need QB's so they likely won't be pushed ahead of where they might go
Combination of things

1 -Trubisky, Mahomes & Watson went picks 21-23 back to back to back last year.

2 - I would agree that many teams need QBs but at the same time it looks like a lot could use a backup and this is an opportune time for many teams to get one.

3 - Without trying to give anything away, I am not sold on all of the top QBs, and if the QB that is still available at 2.07 is not one I am a fan of I think I'll likely pass - especially now that I got Trubisky.

Obviously if the league collectively decides to pass on QB, and the #1 QB on my board is still available at 2.07 then I wont complain - just prepping for the 'worst' - that only QBs I am not high on and are in bad situations type scenario ...
So wait...the NFL with the hundreds of millions spent on draft prep can't ever seem to get picking franchise QB's right but you want to be selective on a less important position in a rookie draft? Situation can change so quickly in the NFL I rarely have guys I won't draft where I think they are the best player. I really like 2 of the QB's and not as high on the other 3 but still think all 5 and a couple stragglers could have careers in the NFL with varying levels of success. if any of the top 5 QB's get to 2.14 pretty sure I will select them whether I think they can succeed or not and I hate drafting QB's in 1QB leagues...like really hate it

Yeah all those QB's went around there last year Winston went in the 1st I think and Mariota right around 2.07. I think all these QB's are better than last years offerings (read into it what you will) but in a 1QB league there will be some of us(me) that will really resist taking QB's over skill positions with value (RB/WR)
Well I dont think QB is any less important than the other positions, it just is perceived that way, and as such less value attached, however there are obviously a variety of ways to build ones team. I have been in 16 team leagues for a long time and I have also seen how hard it can be to hit at QB long-term, and 16 team values (from my experience) are a lot different than 12 teams.

I also believe that drafting a player you are not sold on yet as a bad idea. If I am not sold on a player, and then they get drafted to a situation that suggests that this could be a rough start to their career, then I see no reason to draft that player just because consensus says that is a good spot to take them. Ergo if the only QB(s) left to me at that spot are ones I am not comfortable with then I am not going to say well screw it I need a QB and take one anyways.

So this deal definitely means I do not have to deal with that scenario. Even though this is a deep QB draft, there are still less QB prospects that logically will have an open route to becoming franchise starters than at RB/WR/TE, all of which I feel are pretty deep as well. And if hey, a QB I like, who got drafted to a situation I like, still falls to 2.07, then its a bonus. :)

In any case the NFL misses on all sorts of positions, not just QB, the QB position is just discussed a lot because of the obvious importance to it, which causes more of them to get drafted at the higher draft spots. They'd probably hit on more QBs if more teams had better stability & patience - and of course didnt draft risky prospects so highly lol.
Please speak to clarion contrarion before considering the use of vetos..

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Re: HOF league discussion

Postby Seventy5 » Fri Apr 20, 2018 3:33 pm

ArrylT wrote: Wed Mar 28, 2018 4:14 pm Anyways for our live audience of millions of fans ;)

Jules traded

AJ Green

to Seventy5 for

1.09, 2.17 & 2019 1st
Like I mentioned above - I feel this is a fair trade for both involved, although some might call it lite, or expensive depending on their perspective. On first glance many would probably favor Seventy5 since he got a guy with a proven WR1 history, and potential top 5 WR season again for basically a 2nd half of the 1st 1st and probably another next year, if his goal to go deep into the playoffs is realized.

Jules probably could have waited longer for a better market to develop, but I am guessing part of his goal in what looks to be a re-tool or re-build is to get 2018 picks to hasten the process (and I totally understand that) and the 1.09 could be a spot where a WR with at least WR2 potential awaits him.

I'd say Jules' roster, with a little luck, and with Green off his roster, is now headed for a bottom 4 finish in 2019, and that might be what he was hoping for - to suffer in 2018 for a brighter future. I tend to agree with the adage that a bird in hand is better than 2 in the bush - so while, like I said, a better offer could have been had later - this is a deal that (assuming Jules is going into a rebuild) you dont refuse just because of future perhaps. We all know how cheap the DLF community can be when buying older players ...
I think I can see where Jules is going with his side, but I was quite happy with my side of the deal in this case and I was surprised to see the offer in my inbox.

Initially, I was trying to aim a little lower in the WR rankings by offering 1.09/2nd/+ to some other owners for WRs I had in the 16-26 range, but nobody was biting. Im starting to like my roster as a contender, and once I realized I wasn't a fan of the 2019 class (add in the fact that Im not really even sure who I'd have at 1.09 because my tier drop, as of now, is at 1.08) I posted on the league chat that I was open to doing my 2018+2019 1sts + 2nds for a WR. A few hours later AJG for 1/1/2 pops up in my inbox (To be honest I remember eyeing up one of Jules AJG/KAllen but didn't even make an offer thinking it would be too light). Given that I have a lot of high-upside but hit-miss WRs (TY Hilton, Stefon Diggs, Sammy Watkins, Mike Williams), I'll gladly add some AJG consistency. New lineup should look alright for a 16-teamer:

QB: Andrew Luck - Deshaun Watson - Phillip Rivers
RB: Saquon Barkley (obviously no hiding what I do with the 1.01 this year lol)
RB: Melvin Gordon
RB: Alvin Kamara - Joe Mixon
WR: AJ Green
WR: TY Hilton
WR: Stefon Diggs - Sammy Watkins - Mike Williams - Nelson Agholor
TE: Greg Olsen - Jordan Reed - Eric Ebron

No more 2018+2019 picks, but my team is plenty young enough after 'punting' and building through two rookie drafts.
DLF HOF League | 16 Team 1PPR 1QB-2WR-2RB-1TE-2FL:
QB: Deshaun Watson | Stafford | Purdy | Hooker
RB: Saquon Barkley |DeVon Achane | Deuce
RB: Alvin Kamara | Joe Mixon / Chase Brown | Tucker
WR: Tyreek Hill | Rashee Rice | Tank Dell
WR: Stefon Diggs | DeVonta Smith | MWilliams | Claypool | C Austin
TE: Higbee | Likely | Chig Okonkwo | Strange
2023: 1, 2, 2, 3, 3, 3

DLF Premium League | 16 Team 1PPR 1QB-2WR-2RB-1TE-2FL:
QB: Joe Burrow | Mayfield | Hooker
RB: Saquon Barkley | Tank Bigsby | Deuce
RB: Alvin Kamara | Aaron Jones | JK Dobbins | Sean Tucker
WR: Ja'Marr Chase | Christian Watson | Hyatt | Shenault
WR: Keenan Allen | Marquise Brown | Calvin Ridley | Addison | Claypool | C Jones | Shakir
TE: Sam LaPorta | Strange | Jonnu
2023: 1, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2

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Re: HOF league discussion

Postby ArrylT » Fri Apr 20, 2018 3:45 pm

Yeah I definitely feel that you have one of the strongest rosters in our league atm. Adding Barkley should pretty much lock you into a playoff spot barring the unusual.
Please speak to clarion contrarion before considering the use of vetos..

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Re: HOF league discussion

Postby ericanadian » Sat Apr 21, 2018 8:59 am

I figure in line with the intent of this league, I'll walk through my roster over the next couple weeks with some short scouting reports.

Quarterback

Tyrod Taylor

Why he's on my team: I probably would've moved him by now, but Buffalo's constant talk of replacing him really capped his value. He's a league average starter as a passer and has rushing upside and not much wear on the tires. He was efficient at every level and I he walks into massive upgrades at the receiver position and offensive system.

What concerns me: I suspect a lot of his efficiency was built around the offensive scheme which had play off an elite running game. For a guy that struggled to earn the trust of his coaching staff in Buffalo, going to Captain Panic in Hue Jackson worries me, especially with the team signalling a plan to bring in a top tier rookie. The Browns will need to win early to take the pressure off Jackson and save him from himself. I'm also not convinced that Haley & Jackson are going to coexist well.

DeShone Kizer

Why he's on my team: He was an upside guy with no major red flags besides his terrible agility numbers going to an offense where they seemed to be committed to a long term plan. He struggled a lot last year, but he had some bright spots like an above average deep ball and he never seemed to get frustrated even with all the losing an Jackson's terrible coaching. He's since moved to Green Bay where people seem to think he can learn behind Rodgers and with Rodgers health lately, he may even see some action and be able to build some hype.

What concerns me: While he seemed fine, there's still a good chance that Jackson's panic may have broke Kizer's confidence and I really don't see Green Bay as a team that's any good at developing quarterbacks anymore with Hundley looking lost for most of last season after sitting behind Rodgers for several years. His accuracy was abysmal underneath and if he gets thrust into playing, he's probably going to look about as good as Hundley did.
All I Der Is Win - 16 Team IDP League (Pass TD 6pts)

QB - Stafford, Stroud, Tune
RB - Swift, Hall, Penny, Bigsby, Ford
WR - Pittman, Olave, Di. Johnson, G. Wilson, J. Williams, Metchie, Robinson, M. Wilson
TE - Okonkwo, Schoonmaker
LB - Brooks, R. Smith, Phillips
DL - Crosby, Allen, Simmons
DB - D. James, Baker, Delpit
K - Just a stupid kicker

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Re: HOF league discussion

Postby ArrylT » Sun Apr 22, 2018 8:41 am

I was inspired by his post to do the same (and made sure it was ok) so here is my mainly fantasy take on my QBs on my roster

Quarterback:

Blaine Gabbert

I tend to have a soft spot for underdogs, especially ones who I may have originally ignored/passed on. I was never high on Gabbert when he came out, and while for Jacksonsville sake, it is a shame he did not pan out for them, since then, he has shown, at least imo, that he can carve out a career as a journeyman QB - sort of like a McCown or Fitzpatrick. Mariota has missed games in each of his 3 seasons, so it does not seem like a bad idea to stash Gabbert - who tends to put up a couple of QB1 games every year (Weeks 11 & 12 in 2017, Weeks 2 & 5 in 2016).

Johnny Manziel

same applies to Gabbert - soft spot for a guy everyone else has already written off. However unlike Gabbert it is too early to know if Manziel can . His career was not derailed by being drafted too highly and then pressed into action too soon, but rather because of his own actions, which may have been partially induced by mental health concerns. The fact that he has owned up to his mistakes, has been open about his struggles, and looks to be making a serious & legit comeback - not to mention the interest shown by teams - gives me a feeling that his odds of making it all the way back are at least 50/50 and not the long shot many feel. We all know about the upside. If I am lucky he is my Seabiscuit/Red Pollard.

Nathan Peterman

I do not believe he has starter capabilities. I am not even certain he can become a journeyman or capable backup. I own him simply because the odds suggest he is going to get some starts, and in a 16 team league, QBs with starting potential have value (from my experience). If a contender wants him, he is available dirt-cheap.

Mitch Trubisky

I am neither a truther nor a denier when it comes to him. However, if the Bears are building around him, then that suggests to me, at least for the next few years, he is going to be in that large crowd of QBs who are situation/scheme dependant on being high end QB2s low end QB1s. IE he has a shot of being this years Jared Goff. I think the downside is Joe Flacco (in production not comparing the 2 as QB) and as long as he can start as long as Joe Flacco has already, then that is acceptable. But if he can be Matt Ryan (QB with occasional high end QB1 seasons) then that is a bonus.

I have already expressed above my thoughts that finding a possible long term answer at a position where long term stability is key (to me) and was worth moving Golden Tate for. Basically I take the line that in 12 team leagues (re-draft at least) you can stream QBs - but when building a dynasty roster in a 16 team league hitting on any position, especially QB, is a lot harder - as more owners means more demand and a more limited supply. For example, an owner in one of my 12 team 25 man roster leagues just dropped Eli Manning a couple of days back - but no one is dropping a starter, even a veteran year to year one like a Manning, in this league (if you are feel free to let me know hehe). So I'll take the bird in hand rather than hope for the 2 in the bush, if there are any in the bush left when it comes my turn to pick. Having the QB position address (hopefully) allows one to focus on pounding the other positions.

Of course if a QB I like falls to me at 2.07 - I'll be hard pressed to ignore.
Please speak to clarion contrarion before considering the use of vetos..

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Re: HOF league discussion

Postby maxhyde » Mon Apr 23, 2018 10:56 am

Fun I'll do all my QB's

Brees - consistently awesome

THE END!
DLF HOF League 16 team PPR
QB: Brees, Bradford, Lock(3.07)
RB: David Johnson, Penny, Sanders(1.07), Montgomery(1.06), Love(2.07) Bernard, MLynch, Morris, TJLogan, Joe Williams, Shaun Wilson
WR: Jeffery,Cooper, Josh Gordon, Dede Westbrook, Cam Meredith, Brice Butler, Chester Rogers, Lockett, Switzer, Malone, Cain (IR)
TE: Gronk, Swaim, Maxx Williams

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Re: HOF league discussion

Postby ArrylT » Mon Apr 23, 2018 1:32 pm

maxhyde wrote: Mon Apr 23, 2018 10:56 am Fun I'll do all my QB's

Brees - consistently awesome

THE END!
No argument there. 8-)
Please speak to clarion contrarion before considering the use of vetos..

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Re: HOF league discussion

Postby Quinty » Mon Apr 23, 2018 2:11 pm

The link on the front page is dead. Could someone update the first post with a working link?

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Re: HOF league discussion

Postby thebeast » Mon Apr 23, 2018 2:14 pm

Quinty wrote: Mon Apr 23, 2018 2:11 pm The link on the front page is dead. Could someone update the first post with a working link?
Sure, here you go http://www68.myfantasyleague.com/2018/home/23015#0

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Re: HOF league discussion

Postby ArrylT » Mon Apr 23, 2018 2:15 pm

he beat me to it :thumbup: - and from there you should be able to review the prior seasons as well.
Please speak to clarion contrarion before considering the use of vetos..


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