Should You Reward For Each Rushing Attempt? What About Completions? Should You Penalize For Incompletions?

[lukkynumber13]

This is in play in many leagues.

Especially Point per carry, that’s fairly common in big, complex scoring leagues (usually 0.1 or 0.2 per carry)

[Oddball456]

I would like to play with 1 point per first down + yards + TDs. No PPR, PPC, etc.

Edit: no 1st down points for passing a 1st down, just for rushing or receiving the 1st down.

[jordanzs]

For the past 15 years or so, in any league that I commish, we use this this formula:

.125 per completion
-.125 per incompletion

The way I see it, if you have 2 QBs:

A) 20 for 26, 330 yards, 3 TDs
B) 15 for 40, 330 yards, 3 TDs

QB A (Brees) gets a great passer rating and goes to the Pro Bowl. QB B (Bortles) doesn't.

I like to reward QB A.

[jordanzs]

I would like to play with 1 point per first down + yards + TDs. No PPR, PPC, etc.

Edit: no 1st down points for passing a 1st down, just for rushing or receiving the 1st down.

Interesting. I'd have to look at the stats for that. That's a cool option to have, so they should add it in on more platforms.

I would like .5ppr & .5ppfd (rushing & receiving). Tried to get that on our redraft leagues but it has been voted down.

I would like to bump up the aggressiveness of my QB completion/incompletion numbers. Maybe .2/-.2? or .25/-.25?

I would also like to devalue QB rushing point so that they match the QB passing points. I think it's stupid to take a guy like Tyrod Taylor & say "well he sucks in real life but he's great for fantasy". It's idiotic & there's room for improvement.

I heard another thought on a podcast, but MFL isn't there yet:

How about giving 1 point (or whatever PPR point you use) for receivers who draw a pass interference?

think about it, guys like Michael Thomas who draw those penalties with their athleticism.....they move the chains & help their team. That's a rewardable skill.

[Pullo Vision]

How about giving 1 point (or whatever PPR point you use) for receivers who draw a pass interference?

think about it, guys like Michael Thomas who draw those penalties with their athleticism.....they move the chains & help their team. That's a rewardable skill.

I suggested this in another forum years ago. We ran the numbers and there weren't many PI calls. The people who hated the idea liked that because it wouldn't have a huge impact. The people who liked the idea became less enthusiastic because the WRs with the most defensive PI calls would have had less than a catch every 2 games. It seemed negligible.

[Life of Pablo]

Maybe I'm too much of a traditionalist, but I've always liked fantasy most when the scoring is kept simple. Once you start throwing in smaller factors like carries, completions, etc, I just get annoyed by it. That's just my preference though, I get the argument in favor of it.

How about giving 1 point (or whatever PPR point you use) for receivers who draw a pass interference?

think about it, guys like Michael Thomas who draw those penalties with their athleticism.....they move the chains & help their team. That's a rewardable skill.

I suggested this in another forum years ago. We ran the numbers and there weren't many PI calls. The people who hated the idea liked that because it wouldn't have a huge impact. The people who liked the idea became less enthusiastic because the WRs with the most defensive PI calls would have had less than a catch every 2 games. It seemed negligible.

Despite what I just said about my dislike towards adding extra fluff to the scoring, I always wished that PI calls could be accounted for lol. No worse feeling than when I see someone like Mike Evans get blatantly (and smartly) held to prevent what would've been a 70-yard TD.

Couldn't another option be to instead reward points based on the yardage penalty (or if that's too powerful, than just half of it)? So for example if Evans drew a PI call that advanced the ball 46 yards, he'd get 2.3 points for it.

By extension, you could include any penalties into this (including negative ones). So if Evans only drew a defensive holding call instead, he'd get 0.25 points for the 5-yard penalty. Conversely, if he got called for offensive holding, he'd lose 0.5 points for the 10-yard penalty.

[aaaaaaaack]

We use .5ppr, .5 ppfd, 4pts per passing td, and 1pt/30yds passing in the SuperFlex league I run. Love it so far. Its feels appropriately balanced and allows a lot of flexibility in roster construction. I've run a 1ppr + .2ppc in redraft leagues before and those elite RBs are out of control. Cant encourage ppfd enough, it solves every issue ppc can solve without going overboard and while rewarding real positive in game contributions.

[rubber_duck]

Great topic! I spent some time looking at modified scoring systems that included points per first down (PPFD). The modified scoring did result in a better correlation between the fantasy results and actual football performance. In other words, a probowl caliber player would almost certainly be a top fantasy scorer AND a below average NFL player would not be a good fantasy player.

That was nice.

However, there were a couple of barriers stopping us (my league) from implementing this. As Pablo mentioned, it complicates things quite a bit. Also, some of the stats aren't as accessible as they should be.

Regardless ... of any of that ... we based the scoring system off of two fundamental premises.

1) The player is "charged" fantasy points when he is given an opportunity by the team. For example, a QB is charged 0.5 points for a passing attempt. A RB is charged 0.2 points per rushing attempt. A receiver is charged 0.2 points per target.

2) The player is "rewarded" fantasy points when he succeeds. For example:
0.8 pts per passing completion
1 pt per rushing first down
1 pt per reception

The idea is that a player should not be rewarded just because the team gave them the opportunity to do something. In fact, the player should be charged for the opportunity and then rewarded when they succeed!

[Jason3123]

I agree with Pablo that after playing in several various scoring settings I find myself preferring the simplicity at the end of the day. I like the idea of PPFD but I also prefer to quickly be able to add up a score by looking at the box score, something first downs don't appear in. I do like 1/2 PPR for RB's because it balances out the 2 down backs versus the 3rd down RB's, but still rewards the bell cows. A negative point for an incompletion seems like overkill.

[Wizard]

I agree, keep it simple. We've had some players in my league suggest point for PI but who knows if the ball would have been caught. One of the things that drives me nuts is when your quarterback throws the ball perfectly to the WR and he completely blows it and knocks the ball into the air or lets it go thru his hands or it bounces off his chest for an interception and the QB looses points because of it. That SUCKS!

[FantasyFreak]

Stop bumping this old Turco thread.

[HundPRM]

Funny story about PPCarry system.

I joined a redraft league last fall. I then get told that not only is it 1PPR, its also 1PPCarry and 1PPCompletion. WHAT? Apparently they had this scoring system the previous year and loved it. Fine, I'm all for trying out something off the wall out of pure curiosity.

Doing my predraft research, I noticed that with this system, RBs are obviously skewed so heavy that its honestly laughable. RB1s score DOUBLE the amount of WR1s. Knowing this, I had my draft strategy.

Day of draft, random draw, I get the first overall pick. I don't want this. If these people draft how they should, that means I will end up with RB1 and RB24, I would much rather have RB12 and RB13. I convince the guy at pick 11 to trade me. Everyone proceeds to laugh at me. Apparently I gave up gold for trash. "Who wouldn't want the first pick?"

Round 1 starts, Melvin Gordon falls all the way to me at pick 11. CMC comes to me at pick 14. Then I notice I'm playing with a bunch of idiots. In the 2nd round, 6 WRs are drafted. I think to myself "these guys played with this scoring system last year, what the hell is going on?"

I proceed to load up at RB. My first 5 picks of the draft are Gordon, CMC, Lynch, Ingram, Barber. Everyone is laughing at me. "More RBs? You aren't even going to have a decent filled out team," they said. I fill out my team in later rounds with some choices that looking back, didn't pan out. I did get Kupp, but guys like Fitz, Crowder, Stills, etc didn't play like a I had hoped. Its okay though, RBs are worth gold remember? After Week 1, I trade Stills for Ajayi. My WR core is weak, but Kupp is off to a WR1 start and my RBs are carrying me. Half of the league has a WR in their flex, which my flex RB will outscore by 20 every week.

By week 5, teams start to realize what I already knew. Top RBs are so valuable. I end up trading Lynch for Hopkins. Sounds crazy in a normal league, but Weeks 1-4, Lynch was outscoring Nuk by 11 points per game.

Boom, my starting WRs are set with Hopkins and Kupp. I drop the filler WRs I had on my bench and start scouting for RB fliers. Oh look, Nick Chubb is sitting on the waiver. Thank you. Marlon Mack? Don't mind if I do.

I'm cruising along, dominating my league and then boom. Kupp is injured, Melvin is injured. What to do? Oh I know, lets take one of these RBs and aim for a WR1 again. I convince a guy who desperately needed RB help to trade me Davante Adams for Ingram and Rashad Penny.

My team going into the playoffs consisted of Baker, CMC, Melvin, Chubb, Adams, Hopkins with Ware, Barber and Mack on the bench. As you could probably assume, I won the regular season and playoffs in a landslide.

The downside? Everyone now knows the draft strategy, so this season should finally be competitive. I hope.

[Walter W.]

Maybe I'm too much of a traditionalist, but I've always liked fantasy most when the scoring is kept simple. Once you start throwing in smaller factors like carries, completions, etc, I just get annoyed by it. That's just my preference though, I get the argument in favor of it.

Couldn't agree more. I think a lot of leagues do things just because they can. Try too hard to balance all the positions. Why? In chess the queen is way more valuable than a pawn. If you balance all the pieces, you end up with checkers.

But as I always finish these things with, whatever makes people happy. It's not my league.

[FantasyFreak]

Why do you guys keep bumping this old Turco Thread?

[HundPRM]

Why do you guys keep bumping this old Turco Thread?

By old do you mean posted last week and has had consistent comments since it was created?