Josh Gordon

General talk about Dynasty Leagues.
User avatar
dm1129
Pro Bowler
Pro Bowler
Posts: 1131
Joined: Sat Jul 28, 2012 4:10 pm

Re: Josh Gordon

Postby dm1129 » Tue Dec 12, 2017 11:55 am

CK_ wrote:
Tue Dec 12, 2017 10:22 am
Got it. So he got to the point where no one creditable was willing to work with him and finally realized he hit rock bottom. He then got help from people that have been through the same things he has in some sort of way because they understand his issues and that still isn't good enough. Okay good enough for me, recovery isn't for everyone same as belief that someone can change. I can respect that honestly because we all share different believes. It's just counter intuitive to say these bullet points and then say you believe he wants to recover.

The vocal nation was against this kid every step of the way. I truly hope he can prove all the doubters wrong because people need to understand that it is possible to fight addiction and win. You can definitely tell he really wants to. I enjoy him smiling on the field and saying what he has been saying with the fun of his teammates. THOSE ARE GOOD THINGS GUYS. Those mean he's enjoying his sobriety and enjoying the game of football without a need for something else. His endorphins are flowing without the need of a numbing agent to get him through the day.
It is not counter intuitive in any way. There are people striving for all different types of changes in their lives, yet go about it in the wrong way simply because they know no other way. Your point about choosing people who undertsand his issues simply is not valid for me. If Gordon had chosen an agent who once was an addict as well as training with people who also were once addicts, I could see it. However, surrounding yourself with convicted felons, I don't see it. You have to understand that I was a huge supporter of Gordon in these forums for a very long time. He has said all the 'right things' before...I did not say he cannot change, I said I am more skeptical as I see his chances as much more tenuous than before. As a football fan, I hope he stays clean because he is one of the best WRs I have ever seen play.

onetwothree
Pro Bowler
Pro Bowler
Posts: 1498
Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2016 9:49 am

Re: Josh Gordon

Postby onetwothree » Tue Dec 12, 2017 12:30 pm

The dude isn't a licensed agent. I believe he's only a "business manager". Semantics but I don't think any credible agent is dealing with Gordon anytime soon. I'm sure the guy has financial incentive for Gordon to stay clean though and he's living in his house so that's something.

The SI article did make me skeptical but the tone of the article was also very different than the other interviews he's done. I'm sure the truth is somewhere in the middle between this somewhat negative article and the glowing reports we see.

perkinsrooster
Role Player
Role Player
Posts: 477
Joined: Sat Aug 22, 2015 8:16 pm

Re: Josh Gordon

Postby perkinsrooster » Tue Dec 12, 2017 2:13 pm

dm1129 wrote:
Mon Dec 11, 2017 12:17 pm
perkinsrooster wrote:
Mon Dec 11, 2017 9:51 am
Are addictions really ever beaten? I'm not convinced he's dealt with them at all, especially after what I've read in SI.
I had not read the SI article, thanks for the heads-up! After reading the article, I have to say I am more skeptical now. Several things stood out to me in the article:

1) Gordon's agent is currently on probation as part of a plea for a recruiting scandal.
2) Gordon lied to the author of the article, initially.
3) Gordon spent the summer working out with sprinter Tim Montgomery who was convicted in recent years of check fraud and dealing heroin.
4) Gordon has been clean since only July.

I do believe Gordon is serious about turning his life around, unfortunately the people he has chosen to help in this process don't meet the standard for me. Gordon states in the article that he has relapsed multiple times during this past suspension due to different events in his life that caused adversity, yet he has chosen an agent who is on probation and allows him to work out with a guy who has been found guilty of dealing heroin. This 'support system' just isn't good enough. What happens if Gordon has a bad day, week, etc....? I assumed Gordon had been clean for longer than six months when he was reinstated. Another mistake and he is likely done for life. I love watching him play and I hope it works out for him. As a fantasy owner, I would not be in the market to acquire him at any price that current owners would likely accept.


For those who have not read the article:
https://www.si.com/nfl/2017/11/28/josh- ... browns-nfl
My thoughts as well.

User avatar
GridironGuerilla
Player of the Year
Player of the Year
Posts: 2271
Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2016 2:43 pm
Location: Nor-Cal

Re: Josh Gordon

Postby GridironGuerilla » Tue Dec 12, 2017 4:20 pm

For what it's worth the article never states that by relapse they mean Gordon got high. It says that "In Gainesville he admitted that he had relapsed as recently as July, sneaking away at night to wander the streets in search of weed." Never said he found or smoked it, just that he looked for it. That is certainly within the realm of relapse. Reverting back to addict b behavior. He then goes on the say that it is during one of these experiences that he had his epiphany regarding working as hard for "something good.

From my perspective, the author of the article was skeptical at best and that translated pretty clearly throughout. That's fair considering Gordon's history, but to be honest the the company he keeps and his naivety regarding the people "helping" him are more telling of his stunted maturity and life experiences than they are his dedication to getting clean and changing his life. I prefer to give him the benefit of the doubt.
Bo Knows Dynasty (12 Team IDP/Roster-53/10 IR/8 Taxi)1 QB, 2 RB, 3 WR, 1 TE, 1 Flex, 2 LB, 2 DL, 2 DB
Requiem For a Team

Dragon Eggs Devy (14 Team IDP/Roster-53/10 IR/8 Taxi)1 QB, 2 RB, 2 WR, 1 TE, 4 Flex QB/RB/WR/TE, 2 LB, 1 DT, 2 DE, 1 CB, 2 DB, 2 Flex
The Night's Watch

Marvel VS. DC (14 Team IDP/Roster-53/10 IR)1 QB, 2 RB, 3 WR, 1 TE, 3 Flex QB/RB/WR/TE, 1 DT, 2 DE, 3 LB, 2 S, 1 CB, 1 Flex
The Hulk

WWF/WWE Dynatsty (14 Team IDP/Roster-53/10 IR)1 QB, 2 RB, 3 WR, 1 TE, 3 Flex QB/RB/WR/TE, 1 DT, 2 DE, 3 LB, 2 S, 1 CB, 1 Flex
The Road Warriors

Yahoo! Fantasy Profile

User avatar
dm1129
Pro Bowler
Pro Bowler
Posts: 1131
Joined: Sat Jul 28, 2012 4:10 pm

Re: Josh Gordon

Postby dm1129 » Tue Dec 12, 2017 4:59 pm

GridironGuerilla wrote:
Tue Dec 12, 2017 4:20 pm
For what it's worth the article never states that by relapse they mean Gordon got high. It says that "In Gainesville he admitted that he had relapsed as recently as July, sneaking away at night to wander the streets in search of weed." Never said he found or smoked it, just that he looked for it. That is certainly within the realm of relapse. Reverting back to addict b behavior. He then goes on the say that it is during one of these experiences that he had his epiphany regarding working as hard for "something good.

From my perspective, the author of the article was skeptical at best and that translated pretty clearly throughout. That's fair considering Gordon's history, but to be honest the the company he keeps and his naivety regarding the people "helping" him are more telling of his stunted maturity and life experiences than they are his dedication to getting clean and changing his life. I prefer to give him the benefit of the doubt.
Maybe one day that will be true—but we’re not there yet. Gordon is not yet saved. He has been this far before. In July 2016 he was reinstated from the indefinite suspension he received 17 months earlier. He says he made it through that summer’s training camp and preseason sober, then learned there was a warrant out for his arrest in Cleveland tied to a paternity case involving his then one-year-old daughter, Emma, and he started drinking again. (In court, after a DNA test, Gordon admitted to being Emma’s father.) One week before his planned return he left the team, checked himself into rehab and saw his reinstatement rescinded. Even after that, he says, he was able to stay sober for six months. Then, this past May, the NFL rejected another reinstatement bid and he started “reaching back to [his] familiar devices. Marijuana. Alcohol.”

I want to give him the benefit of the doubt, I want him to succeed and stay clean. Even if it is understandable regarding the people who he has chosen to 'help' him, this is not a 'rehersal' for him at this point. Rehersal was several years ago. If he makes another mistake, he very well good be done, period. That is the problem.

User avatar
lukkynumber13
Degenerate
Degenerate
Posts: 8226
Joined: Fri May 20, 2016 2:41 pm

Re: Josh Gordon

Postby lukkynumber13 » Tue Dec 12, 2017 5:14 pm

GridironGuerilla wrote:
Tue Dec 12, 2017 4:20 pm
For what it's worth the article never states that by relapse they mean Gordon got high. It says that "In Gainesville he admitted that he had relapsed as recently as July, sneaking away at night to wander the streets in search of weed." Never said he found or smoked it, just that he looked for it. That is certainly within the realm of relapse. Reverting back to addict b behavior. He then goes on the say that it is during one of these experiences that he had his epiphany regarding working as hard for "something good.

From my perspective, the author of the article was skeptical at best and that translated pretty clearly throughout. That's fair considering Gordon's history, but to be honest the the company he keeps and his naivety regarding the people "helping" him are more telling of his stunted maturity and life experiences than they are his dedication to getting clean and changing his life. I prefer to give him the benefit of the doubt.
With ultimate respect to the highly sensitive topic that is addiction and recovery - reverting to addict behavior is not considered relapsing. Relapsing is "acting out" (using). For drug addicts, that's using drugs. For alcoholics, that's taking a drink. I don't know any alcoholics who consider entering a liquor store to be relapsing. Highly unwise, grounds for consequences? Absolutely. But that in and of itself doesn't cause a break in sobriety.
T1
LUCK, Flacco, Brissett
ZEKE/MIXON, Collins, Yeldon, D Williams, R Smith
EVANS/DIGGS/HILTON/THIELEN, Sammy, C Davis, Sanu, Humphries, Wallace, Terrance W, K Bourne, Hansen, Inman
GRONK, Shaheen, Maxx W
-
DL: FLOWERS/HUGHES/ADDISON, Short, Okafor, Sheard, Malik J, Simon, Wolfe
LB: E KENDRICKS/AVERY W/ZACH C, Schobert, Goodson, Golden, N Vigil, Onwuasor, Morrison, M Foster, Milano, Nick K, Freeman, DJ
DB: ADDAE/AMOS/FARLEY, Simmons, John J, Heath, Maye

T2
JIMMY G, Rivers
GURLEY/GORDON/MIXON, Ajayi, Gio, D Williams
NUK/AJG/DIGGS/DT, Crabtree, Sanders, Shepard, P-Rich, Sanu, Hogan, Pryor
ENGRAM, Doyle, Olsen, Higbee, Vance, Everett
-
DL: GRIFFEN/BUCKNER/HEYWARD, Short, Wilkerson, Wolfe, Ogbah, Spence, Simon
LB: KENDRICKS/BURFICT/TREVATHAN/HITCHENS/WRIGHT, Golden, Hicks, Ford, Goodson, Humber
DB: CHURCH/TAVON/POYER, Farley, Phillips, John J, TJ McD

User avatar
GridironGuerilla
Player of the Year
Player of the Year
Posts: 2271
Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2016 2:43 pm
Location: Nor-Cal

Re: Josh Gordon

Postby GridironGuerilla » Tue Dec 12, 2017 5:22 pm

Ahh. Yes, thank you for the clarification dm1129. And lukky13 that's more than reasonable, although "seeking" alcohol /drugs is addictive behavior and a sign of an impending relapse, and very different from simply walking into a liquor store. But, I digress. You are absolutely right in your point and I think perhaps I'm looking for ways to discredit the author as to me it feels like he's got his mind made up and is betraying his opinions with his tone rather than writing an objective piece. My bad.

So according to Gordon's timeline, it is inferred he used in May and as recently last July. Fair enough. That certainly cast a bit of a shadow for anyone who doubts his intentions and commitment. I will say that as silly as it sounds to those who aren't experienced with addiction, but relapse is considered a very normal part of the process of learning to stay clean in the community of recovery. His recent use it doesn't change my view that his lack of maturity and the company he keeps aren't necessarily an accurate reflection of his resolve, and this article uses it against him. Another part of successful recovery is to change the company you keep and surround yourself with like minded people. As early as he is in the process, that may be something he will realize he needs to do to accomplish his goals.

I still chose to extend him the benefit of the doubt that this "epiphany" is enough to convince him to change his life. That and a little motivation is all it took for me. He's got millions of reasons to be motivated.
Last edited by GridironGuerilla on Tue Dec 12, 2017 5:55 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Bo Knows Dynasty (12 Team IDP/Roster-53/10 IR/8 Taxi)1 QB, 2 RB, 3 WR, 1 TE, 1 Flex, 2 LB, 2 DL, 2 DB
Requiem For a Team

Dragon Eggs Devy (14 Team IDP/Roster-53/10 IR/8 Taxi)1 QB, 2 RB, 2 WR, 1 TE, 4 Flex QB/RB/WR/TE, 2 LB, 1 DT, 2 DE, 1 CB, 2 DB, 2 Flex
The Night's Watch

Marvel VS. DC (14 Team IDP/Roster-53/10 IR)1 QB, 2 RB, 3 WR, 1 TE, 3 Flex QB/RB/WR/TE, 1 DT, 2 DE, 3 LB, 2 S, 1 CB, 1 Flex
The Hulk

WWF/WWE Dynatsty (14 Team IDP/Roster-53/10 IR)1 QB, 2 RB, 3 WR, 1 TE, 3 Flex QB/RB/WR/TE, 1 DT, 2 DE, 3 LB, 2 S, 1 CB, 1 Flex
The Road Warriors

Yahoo! Fantasy Profile

User avatar
dm1129
Pro Bowler
Pro Bowler
Posts: 1131
Joined: Sat Jul 28, 2012 4:10 pm

Re: Josh Gordon

Postby dm1129 » Tue Dec 12, 2017 5:46 pm

GridironGuerilla wrote:
Tue Dec 12, 2017 5:22 pm
Ahh. Yes, thank you for the clarification dm1129. And lukky13, that's more than reasonable. I think perhaps I'm looking for reasons to discredit the author as to me it feels like he's got his mind made up and is betraying his opinions with his tone rather than writing an objective piece. My bad.

So according to Gordon's timeline, it is inferred he used in May and as recently last July. Fair enough. That certainly cast a bit of a shadow for anyone who doubts his intentions and commitment. I will say that as silly as it sounds to those who aren't experienced with addiction, but relapse is considered a very normal part of the process of learning to stay clean in the community of recovery. His recent use it doesn't change my view that his lack of maturity and the company he keeps aren't necessarily an accurate reflection of his resolve, and this article uses it against him. Another part of successful recovery is to change the company you keep and surround yourself with like minded people. As early as he is in the process, that may be something he will realize he needs to do to accomplish his goals.

I still chose to extend him the benefit of the doubt that this "epiphany" is enough to convince him to change his life. That and a little motivation is all it took for me. He's got millions of reasons to be motivated.
I honestly do believe Gordon is serious about staying clean. My fear is his 'support group' doesn't meet the standard for me to feel comfortable. I believe the conditions of his reinstatement are no alcohol in addition to no 'drugs'. I am not 100% positive on that. My fear is Gordon has a bad day for whatever reason and one drink of alcohol could be the difference in his future. That is why as a fantasy owner, I am not willing to pay what most current owners would sell for.

User avatar
Tsunami
All Pro
All Pro
Posts: 1680
Joined: Fri Jul 05, 2013 12:46 am

Re: Josh Gordon

Postby Tsunami » Tue Dec 12, 2017 6:25 pm

So if you're the Browns GM, do you do anything to help Gordon through the offseason? Hire him a sobriety coach? Or keep him busy on Dancing With The Stars? Get him a minor league baseball contract? You have to know that free time is a disaster waiting to happen.

User avatar
lukkynumber13
Degenerate
Degenerate
Posts: 8226
Joined: Fri May 20, 2016 2:41 pm

Re: Josh Gordon

Postby lukkynumber13 » Tue Dec 12, 2017 6:32 pm

Tsunami wrote:
Tue Dec 12, 2017 6:25 pm
So if you're the Browns GM, do you do anything to help Gordon through the offseason? Hire him a sobriety coach? Or keep him busy on Dancing With The Stars? Get him a minor league baseball contract? You have to know that free time is a disaster waiting to happen.
If he's truly serious about staying sober, he should have an extremely intimate relationship with his AA mentor, and there should be a tight triangle network between Gordon, his mentor, and the Browns organization.

All his movements should be accounted for. Every event he attends needs to be approved by his mentor, any vacations carefully planned for, and who he socializes with needs to be scrutinized. If he does all of those things, he will stay sober. Most people aren't willing to subject their lives to such accountability but that's what it takes to beat addiction.
T1
LUCK, Flacco, Brissett
ZEKE/MIXON, Collins, Yeldon, D Williams, R Smith
EVANS/DIGGS/HILTON/THIELEN, Sammy, C Davis, Sanu, Humphries, Wallace, Terrance W, K Bourne, Hansen, Inman
GRONK, Shaheen, Maxx W
-
DL: FLOWERS/HUGHES/ADDISON, Short, Okafor, Sheard, Malik J, Simon, Wolfe
LB: E KENDRICKS/AVERY W/ZACH C, Schobert, Goodson, Golden, N Vigil, Onwuasor, Morrison, M Foster, Milano, Nick K, Freeman, DJ
DB: ADDAE/AMOS/FARLEY, Simmons, John J, Heath, Maye

T2
JIMMY G, Rivers
GURLEY/GORDON/MIXON, Ajayi, Gio, D Williams
NUK/AJG/DIGGS/DT, Crabtree, Sanders, Shepard, P-Rich, Sanu, Hogan, Pryor
ENGRAM, Doyle, Olsen, Higbee, Vance, Everett
-
DL: GRIFFEN/BUCKNER/HEYWARD, Short, Wilkerson, Wolfe, Ogbah, Spence, Simon
LB: KENDRICKS/BURFICT/TREVATHAN/HITCHENS/WRIGHT, Golden, Hicks, Ford, Goodson, Humber
DB: CHURCH/TAVON/POYER, Farley, Phillips, John J, TJ McD

User avatar
ArrylT
Player of the Year
Player of the Year
Posts: 2482
Joined: Sun Feb 01, 2015 9:32 pm
Location: Canada

Re: Josh Gordon

Postby ArrylT » Tue Dec 12, 2017 7:48 pm

Tsunami wrote:
Fri Dec 08, 2017 5:52 pm
Guess who's back. The original Josh Gordon thread!!! Go back and read how wrong you were.
:clap:
Please speak to clarion contrarion before considering the use of vetos..

User avatar
ArrylT
Player of the Year
Player of the Year
Posts: 2482
Joined: Sun Feb 01, 2015 9:32 pm
Location: Canada

Re: Josh Gordon

Postby ArrylT » Tue Dec 12, 2017 7:49 pm

Valhalla wrote:
Fri Dec 08, 2017 6:54 pm
If all the Josh Gordon threads were to be merged (as they should), I think it would be well over 100 pages of arguing devoted to one player.
:lol: :mrgreen: :whistle:
Please speak to clarion contrarion before considering the use of vetos..

User avatar
ArrylT
Player of the Year
Player of the Year
Posts: 2482
Joined: Sun Feb 01, 2015 9:32 pm
Location: Canada

Re: Josh Gordon

Postby ArrylT » Tue Dec 12, 2017 7:49 pm

ericanadian wrote:
Fri Dec 08, 2017 7:14 pm
Bot101 wrote:
Fri Dec 08, 2017 7:00 pm
Better to discuss Gordon than Nathan Peterman. I cringe when I see that thread bumped.
We could bring back the ridiculously long Ryan Mallett thread if you'd prefer that.
:thumbup: :thumbup:
Please speak to clarion contrarion before considering the use of vetos..

User avatar
Valhalla
Ring of Fame
Ring of Fame
Posts: 3133
Joined: Sat Nov 16, 2013 4:26 pm

Re: Josh Gordon

Postby Valhalla » Tue Dec 12, 2017 9:20 pm

Tsunami wrote:
Tue Dec 12, 2017 6:25 pm
Get him a minor league baseball contract?
:lol: The key to staying sober

User avatar
Tsunami
All Pro
All Pro
Posts: 1680
Joined: Fri Jul 05, 2013 12:46 am

Re: Josh Gordon

Postby Tsunami » Wed Dec 13, 2017 7:07 am

lukkynumber13 wrote:
Tue Dec 12, 2017 6:32 pm
Tsunami wrote:
Tue Dec 12, 2017 6:25 pm
So if you're the Browns GM, do you do anything to help Gordon through the offseason? Hire him a sobriety coach? Or keep him busy on Dancing With The Stars? Get him a minor league baseball contract? You have to know that free time is a disaster waiting to happen.
If he's truly serious about staying sober, he should have an extremely intimate relationship with his AA mentor, and there should be a tight triangle network between Gordon, his mentor, and the Browns organization.

All his movements should be accounted for. Every event he attends needs to be approved by his mentor, any vacations carefully planned for, and who he socializes with needs to be scrutinized. If he does all of those things, he will stay sober. Most people aren't willing to subject their lives to such accountability but that's what it takes to beat addiction.
There's no scientific evidence that AA works.


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: dynastyaggie, Madadamus, tresskid84, XxBallMeBlazerxX and 5 guests