Kirk Cousins Discussion Thread

[Cameron Giles]

Despite all the hate they received, I think the Redskins have played this situation right up to this point. Cousins wants to be the highest paid player at the position in NFL history and is getting paid close to that this year, despite little accomplishments. The Redskins have no commintent beyond this year. They either go 7-9 and Cousins looks average, or they go 10-6 and win a playoff game or two. If that happens, I agree Cousins is going to get paid. If he goes 7-9, will a team really be offering him 75M guaranteed at 25M a year? Maybe they do, but the Redskins still have the opportunity to match.

No, Washington played this situation horribly. There's not enough adjectives to describe how badly they did.

Washington is going to end up paying Cousins a guaranteed $44 million over the last two years. They could've had him for less guaranteed money and more years if they got a contract done after the 2015 season. If they transition tag him or pay him the equivalent in his first year of a new deal, they will have guaranteed him $72 million from 2016-2018. That's not even including more guaranteed money for the rest of the deal. Cousins could end up getting close to 95-100 million in guaranteed money from 2016-2019. For comparison, Andrew Luck got $87 million guaranteed on his new contract over five years.

I don't think Cousins ever wanted to be the highest paid QB. But, Cousins kept playing well and basically boxed Washington into a corner.

Even if Cousins looks average this season, he's still going to get paid a ton of money due to the premium of the position. San Francisco and Cleveland both need a QB and have the cap space to make a lucrative offer. Not to mention, a team like Jacksonville or the Jets could get involved too. I don't think some fans realize how rare it is for a QB as good as Cousins to actually make it to unrestricted free agency in his prime. He's going to get PAID.

[WhatWouldDitkaDo]

Despite all the hate they received, I think the Redskins have played this situation right up to this point. Cousins wants to be the highest paid player at the position in NFL history and is getting paid close to that this year, despite little accomplishments. The Redskins have no commintent beyond this year. They either go 7-9 and Cousins looks average, or they go 10-6 and win a playoff game or two. If that happens, I agree Cousins is going to get paid. If he goes 7-9, will a team really be offering him 75M guaranteed at 25M a year? Maybe they do, but the Redskins still have the opportunity to match.

No, Washington played this situation horribly. There's not enough adjectives to describe how badly they did.

Washington is going to end up paying Cousins a guaranteed $44 million over the last two years. They could've had him for less guaranteed money and more years if they got a contract done after the 2015 season. If they transition tag him or pay him the equivalent in his first year of a new deal, they will have guaranteed him $72 million from 2016-2018. That's not even including more guaranteed money for the rest of the deal. Cousins could end up getting close to 95-100 million in guaranteed money from 2016-2019. For comparison, Andrew Luck got $87 million guaranteed on his new contract over five years.

I don't think Cousins ever wanted to be the highest paid QB. But, Cousins kept playing well and basically boxed Washington into a corner.

Even if Cousins looks average this season, he's still going to get paid a ton of money due to the premium of the position. San Francisco and Cleveland both need a QB and have the cap space to make a lucrative offer. Not to mention, a team like Jacksonville or the Jets could get involved too. I don't think some fans realize how rare it is for a QB as good as Cousins to actually make it to unrestricted free agency in his prime. He's going to get PAID.

This. Many NFL teams are good, but you need a solid QB situation to truly make a deep playoff or title run. I don't think Cousins is elite by any means, but Joe Flacco won a Super Bowl, and I'd take Cousins over Flacco if I were an NFL GM. Teams like HOU, KC, DEN, and others can have great talent on offense and defense and make it to the playoffs but ultimately will fall short without a good starting QB.

WAS misplayed this in the worst way. Either rebuild and get what you can for Cousins from a trade, or lock him up long term. What they're doing is paying him a ton of money only to lose him next year regardless. Cousins may go on record saying he wants to stay in WAS, but if I were a betting man, I'd say that's for good PR only, and he's 95% likely to be playing somewhere else in 2018.

[osubuckeyeman]

Cousins camp did not even counter offer Allen/Synder. Told me all I needed to know. Cousins is already gone. You don't counter because they might say "Yes".

[osubuckeyeman]

Cousins isn't the joke, the Redskins are the joke. He has taken the high road in all media encounters as the Redskins continue to make themselves look inept by publishing how poor their offer was. The Redskins dared him to bet on himself last year when they tagged him and Cousins performed. Them not offering him a market value offer sheet will hurt them in all contract negotiations moving forward. What FA wants to go to a franchise that deals this way?

Must be related to Allen or Synder.

[Cameron Giles]

Cousins camp did not even counter offer Allen/Synder. Told me all I needed to know. Cousins is already gone. You don't counter because they might say "Yes".

What's the point of countering? Washington didn't offer any new money in guarantees. They offered him $28 million for 2018 (the transition tag value) and four years of unguaranteed option years, so Washington can cut bait whenever they please. When you add that to the franchise tag, you get the total value that Bruce Allen leaked to the media. It's a laughable offer.

[osubuckeyeman]

Cousins camp did not even counter offer Allen/Synder. Told me all I needed to know. Cousins is already gone. You don't counter because they might say "Yes".

What's the point of countering? Washington didn't offer any new money in guarantees. They offered him $28 million for 2018 (the transition tag value) and four years of unguaranteed option years, so Washington can cut bait whenever they please. When you add that to the franchise tag, you get the total value that Bruce Allen leaked to the media. It's a laughable offer.

Totally agree. I think it would take a Godfather offer and even then it might not be enough. I just think Cousins wants out and really can you blame him? Who wants to play for a front office that operates like that? My opinion is that he wants to be in San Francisco and he knows he can pretty much make that happen or at the very least get the money he wants from Washington if they match the Niners offer assuming they transition tag Kirk which knowing Allen they will. I think that would be dumb. Washington just needs to move on at this point and start working on a plan to get their next quarterback which most likely means trading up and spending a ton of draft capital or giving a player of high caliber and draft capital however they do it the time is now to start planning on moving on. Colt McCoy and Nate Zudfield are not the answer.

[Jason]

Cousins camp did not even counter offer Allen/Synder. Told me all I needed to know. Cousins is already gone. You don't counter because they might say "Yes".

What's the point of countering? Washington didn't offer any new money in guarantees. They offered him $28 million for 2018 (the transition tag value) and four years of unguaranteed option years, so Washington can cut bait whenever they please. When you add that to the franchise tag, you get the total value that Bruce Allen leaked to the media. It's a laughable offer.

Totally agree. I think it would take a Godfather offer and even then it might not be enough. I just think Cousins wants out and really can you blame him? Who wants to play for a front office that operates like that? My opinion is that he wants to be in San Francisco and he knows he can pretty much make that happen or at the very least get the money he wants from Washington if they match the Niners offer assuming they transition tag Kirk which knowing Allen they will. I think that would be dumb. Washington just needs to move on at this point and start working on a plan to get their next quarterback which most likely means trading up and spending a ton of draft capital or giving a player of high caliber and draft capital however they do it the time is now to start planning on moving on. Colt McCoy and Nate Zudfield are not the answer.

San Francisco is gonna front load the holy hell out of that contract, Washington isn't going to match.

[Cameron Giles]

Yeah, San Francisco may break the bank. I still wouldn't look past Cleveland either. There could be a lot of teams in on Cousins. It's a chance to get an above-average QB in his prime without giving up a draft pick and waiting on development.

[remedy29]

You can not offer a player with the transition tag a poison pill contract offer. If Cousins has a great year, Washington transition tags him and can sign him to any offer he receives from other teams. If Cousins has an average year, Wil a team be dumb enough to give Cousins 24M a year contract? That sounds like a fast way to get a GM fired. Out of possible teams, Cleveland wouldn't be a bad landing spot for Cousins, but I don't think that is the direction the front office is going, they like players who have the measurables.

For all you that think Washington totally has screwed this up, I suggest you read the article below. It is well written and spot on. I like this quote;
Numbers do a lot for guys.
Cousins had a "good year" while being a primary reason they lost v PIT, DAL, ARI, CAR, NYG and tied CIN

http://ftw.usatoday.com/2017/07/nfl-kir ... ruce-allen

[Cameron Giles]

You can not offer a player with the transition tag a poison pill contract offer. If Cousins has a great year, Washington transition tags him and can sign him to any offer he receives from other teams. If Cousins has an average year, Wil a team be dumb enough to give Cousins 24M a year contract? That sounds like a fast way to get a GM fired. Out of possible teams, Cleveland wouldn't be a bad landing spot for Cousins, but I don't think that is the direction the front office is going, they like players who have the measurables.

The answer is Yes. QB is the most important position in the NFL. Teams will always overpay in draft picks and money to secure one. Kirk Cousins will be 29 years old and he's 2nd in the NFL in QBR since he took over as a starter in 2015. He's not without flaws, but he is easily going to be one of the best players to hit free agency in a long time.

For all you that think Washington totally has screwed this up, I suggest you read the article below. It is well written and spot on. I like this quote;
Numbers do a lot for guys.
Cousins had a "good year" while being a primary reason they lost v PIT, DAL, ARI, CAR, NYG and tied CIN

http://ftw.usatoday.com/2017/07/nfl-kir ... ruce-allen

Cousins isn't without flaws. However, Washington still played this terribly. They're on course to pay a QB who they don't believe in $44 million in guaranteed money for two seasons. For comparison, Matthew Stafford's last contract gave him $41 million guaranteed over three years. Not to mention, they currently don't have a backup plan for Cousins. Their backup QB's are a 31-year-old Colt McCoy and some guy named Nate Sudfield. Washington doesn't project to be bad enough to land one of the top QB's in next year's draft. So, they would likely have to make another RG3-type deal to move up.

Add in that if Washington does end up keeping him, they will guarantee him $72 million over the last three years in addition to matching a contract offer with even more guaranteed money.

Seriously, there's no upside to what Washington is doing. It's not like they're letting Brock Osweiler walk. The real winner here is Kirk Cousins' agent, who's further exposed Washington's terrible front office.

[ColdZealDonkeyStrike]

You can not offer a player with the transition tag a poison pill contract offer. If Cousins has a great year, Washington transition tags him and can sign him to any offer he receives from other teams. If Cousins has an average year, Wil a team be dumb enough to give Cousins 24M a year contract? That sounds like a fast way to get a GM fired. Out of possible teams, Cleveland wouldn't be a bad landing spot for Cousins, but I don't think that is the direction the front office is going, they like players who have the measurables.

For all you that think Washington totally has screwed this up, I suggest you read the article below. It is well written and spot on. I like this quote;
Numbers do a lot for guys.
Cousins had a "good year" while being a primary reason they lost v PIT, DAL, ARI, CAR, NYG and tied CIN

http://ftw.usatoday.com/2017/07/nfl-kir ... ruce-allen

I believe you are wrong about the transition tag. There are no restrictions on the type of offer a team can make to a player on a transition tag. Teams can offera mullti-year contract, so they can structure the first year money in such a way that WAS can't match. It should be pretty easy for the Browns, Jags, Texans, 49ers, or Rams to do something like that, among other teams.

No one is suggesting that Cousins is Aaron Rodgers, but there is no denying he is an average-to-above average NFL QB in his prime, which is something that never becomes available in FA. Teams fall over themselves to get QBs that have shown far less than Cousins but might have a chance to be an average starter. That's why things like $37m guaranteed to Brock Osweiler or $19M guaranteed for Mike Glennon happen. It is why teams mortgage their future for QB prospects with massive question marks like Jared Goff and Carson Wentz. Given how many teams have loads of cap space and need QBs, it would take an epic meltdown for Cousins to get less than $24M annually if he hits FA.

And WAS screwed themselves last offseason, not this offseason (as CG laid out very well). Cousins was asking for above average QB money after playing like an above average QB in 2015. The skins preferred to tag him at $20m and offer him $16m annually for a long-trm deal, which was equivalent to saying, "we don't believe in you enough to commit to you unless you take a significant discount from market value". Only by having him play on the franchise tag in 2016, they gave Cousins all the leverage in negotiations. And as players always should in the current NFL, Cousins is now using that leverage. If they had just offered him a decent deal last offseason, they wouldn't be on the precipice of spiraling into Jets territory of having a solid and expensive roster with no QB to lead it.

I do believe drafting a rookie QB and sucking for 2 years only to find out he is a bust is the most sure way for a GM to lose his job. Cousins would be an immediate upgrade on many teams, and if a GM can upgrade at by far the most in demand position on the team, and all it costs is cap space (which goes up with league revenue and teams have loads of at the moment)? Sounds like an easy decision to make for many GMs.

[ColdZealDonkeyStrike]

that think Washington totally has screwed this up, I suggest you read the article below. It is well written and spot on. I like this quote;
Numbers do a lot for guys.
Cousins had a "good year" while being a primary reason they lost v PIT, DAL, ARI, CAR, NYG and tied CIN
http://ftw.usatoday.com/2017/07/nfl-kir ... ruce-allen

I just wanted to add, quoting Cian Fahey to say that Cousins is bad is basically like quoting the Pope to say that pr0n is bad. Everyone should already know what he thinks on the topic. I was following that guy on Twitter during 2015, and he was making fun of Cousins every week before Cousins went on his tear. After that he seemed to be on this vendetta to prove that Cousins was awful when everyone was praising his 2nd half. He is not a guy who's opinion I value on this particular topic, since he seems to have taken Cousins' success as an affront to his scouting skills.

[remedy29]

Washington has over 50M in cap space in 2018, there is no offer they wouldn't be able to match, if they want to.
And you are making an assumption on what Cousins would have signed for in 2016, he wanted 44M guaranteed. He got 44M, so he has done well in his negotiations. I'm just saying Washington has not necessarily done terrible. They paid Cousins what he wanted through Franchise tags and they have zero comitment after this year. I do not think teams will rush to make Cousins the highest paid QB in the league simply because he is a Free Agent QB and teams throw crazy money at free agent QBs. Well see. I still say, leaving Washington would be the worst thing Cousins can do for his career as it will end shortly after. He has already made a ton of money. Is he committed to winning or to the money? He certainly hasn't won anything on the field yet.

[Tsunami]

They did win the NFC East in 2015 and they had the first back-to-back winning seasons in 20 years. The Redskins weren't sure so it's hard to blame them but if they let him go they are crazy.

[ColdZealDonkeyStrike]

you are making an assumption on what Cousins would have signed for in 2016

You are right, I don't know what Cousins would have signed for last offseason. I do know that the reported offer of $16m per year was a slap in the face, and I am pretty confident that he would have signed for a good amount less than the $70+m guaranteed over 3 years that he will almost certainly get, but there is no way to know that with complete certainty.

I do not think teams will rush to make Cousins the highest paid QB in the league simply because he is a Free Agent QB and teams throw crazy money at free agent QBs.

I don't think teams care whether he is the top paid QB or not. With the way the salary cap is set up, there is going to be a new top paid player at a position pretty much annually. That was kind of the point of how the NFLPA negotiated player wages during the almost holdout. The figures you are saying are crazy won't even look crazy by the following offseason.

Teams are going to throw money at him because he is a clear upgrade at the hardest and most important position to fill in football. I don't think they will draw some line based on the principle that he is not as good as Andrew Luck, so he shouldn't get more money than Andrew Luck, for example.

I still say, leaving Washington would be the worst thing Cousins can do for his career as it will end shortly after.

I am surprised that anyone thinks a guy with Cousins track record might be out of the league if he leaves Washington, considering the current landscape of QBs in the league. But if you feel that way, so be it.

He has already made a ton of money. Is he committed to winning or to the money?

Seems hardly fair to equate loyalty to Washington to being committed to winning, given their annual dysfunction. Also, plenty of other factors could be at play. For example, I am sure he has the NFLPA in his ear reminding him this is an important negotiation for players across the league.

He certainly hasn't won anything on the field yet.

In 2 years as the starter for the Redskins, he has 2 winning records and a Division title. In 2 years as a full-time starter in the Big Ten, he went 22-5 and won a Big Ten title. He has won more than a lot of QBs.