Why is Perine being taken a round before Foreman?

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lunchbox12
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Re: Why is Perine being taken a round before Foreman?

Postby lunchbox12 » Sun Jul 16, 2017 8:09 pm

Goirish374 wrote:
Thu Jul 13, 2017 12:07 pm
So, no.

Not this at all.

it is absolutely not a question of talent vs situation.

This is the bumper sticker, sportscenter level pseudo analysis level of assessment, sure, but for people who know perrine this is absolutely not a question of talent vs situation.

It's a question of talent vs. talent.

You might think i mean SP's talent vs DF's talent. I don't.

I mean Perrine's pre ankle surgery talent vs his post ankle surgery talent.

Perrine's position, far down on most folks' boards, is the product of their assessment of mostly his final year of college play. He was slow, indecisive and stiff. He also was entirely unrecovered from ankle surgery between his sophomore and junior years.

The pre ankle injury Perrine is unquestionably more talented than DF and is stratospherically more talented than the post injury Perrine that most NFL teams and nearly all fantasy players have based their comparisons on.

The issue isn't perrine's situation--its how much of a gamble returning to form will be. There is absolutely a chance he will regain it--in which case his current ADP will be theft. There is absolutely a risk he won't heal beyond what we saw last year--in which case his worth will tumble far below even a DF who doesn't supplant Miller.

So the issue with Perrine is gambling that he (as he has reported) is finally healthy, can remain so, and that the health will translate into a return to prior form.
For someone claiming they know all about perine.. you certainly spelled his name wrong a lot here 🤔🤔
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Re: Why is Perine being taken a round before Foreman?

Postby Goirish374 » Mon Jul 17, 2017 3:41 am

lunchbox12 wrote:
Sun Jul 16, 2017 8:09 pm
you certainly spelled his name wrong a lot here 🤔🤔
you're not wrong about that!
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Re: Why is Perine being taken a round before Foreman?

Postby Sterling Archer » Mon Jul 17, 2017 11:05 am

So many pages. Didn't read them, but just thought I'd clear this up quickly...

Despite all the ridiculous Foreman hype in this forum (wasn't there a manifesto on here, supposedly about rookie RBs, but clearly just to hype Foreman?), Perine is actually the better talent in the better situation (not just RB competition, but better OL and QB). Thus, he should be going higher. Nothing weird going on.

Yes, Houston drafted Foreman at the end of the 3rd and Washington drafted Perine at the top of the 4th, but we're talking about Houston here. Rick Smith is not exactly a draft guru. So try not to let draft position fool you.

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Re: Why is Perine being taken a round before Foreman?

Postby Dynasty DeLorean » Mon Jul 17, 2017 1:28 pm

Sterling Archer wrote:
Mon Jul 17, 2017 11:05 am


Despite all the ridiculous Foreman hype in this forum (wasn't there a manifesto on here, supposedly about rookie RBs, but clearly just to hype Foreman?)
Yep, it was just a bunch of nonsense.

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Re: Why is Perine being taken a round before Foreman?

Postby Sterling Archer » Mon Jul 17, 2017 1:58 pm

Dynasty DeLorean wrote:
Mon Jul 17, 2017 1:28 pm
Sterling Archer wrote:
Mon Jul 17, 2017 11:05 am


Despite all the ridiculous Foreman hype in this forum (wasn't there a manifesto on here, supposedly about rookie RBs, but clearly just to hype Foreman?)
Yep, it was just a bunch of nonsense.
Time will tell. Feel free to bump this in 2020 if I was wrong. I'll show up and eat crow if that happens. To me Foreman is a big back that plays small. He fumbles too much, can't pass protect, and gets tackled too easily. Perine is a big back that plays like a big back. Unlikely to be an elite fantasy contributor at any point, but will probably have a longer, better career than Foreman.

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Re: Why is Perine being taken a round before Foreman?

Postby AzTheCrow » Mon Jul 17, 2017 2:48 pm

Perine rushed for a record 427 yards and five TDs in one game. I think he can be elite despite his label by many as a limited big back. He's fast and he can catch the ball very well, though I think his best assets are strength, durabilty, and no fear. He will put his foot in the ground and plow. He will be a good fantasy RB on a regular basis with many elite days sprinkled in as well.
Last edited by AzTheCrow on Mon Jul 17, 2017 4:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Why is Perine being taken a round before Foreman?

Postby Goirish374 » Mon Jul 17, 2017 2:55 pm

AzTheCrow wrote:
Mon Jul 17, 2017 2:48 pm
He will put his foot in the ground and plow.
He certainly can be that running back. We've seen it.

But we've also seen him not be that running back.

That's the question. Which SP will we get?

I would amend your above statement a bit to read "If he puts his foot in the ground and plows, then he will be a good fantasy RB on a regular basis with elite fantasy days sprinkled in as well."
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Re: Why is Perine being taken a round before Foreman?

Postby Valhalla » Mon Jul 17, 2017 3:10 pm

Goirish374 wrote:
Mon Jul 17, 2017 2:55 pm
AzTheCrow wrote:
Mon Jul 17, 2017 2:48 pm
He will put his foot in the ground and plow.
He certainly can be that running back. We've seen it.

But we've also seen him not be that running back.

That's the question. Which SP will we get?
...
HEY! Don't you know that only upside comments are allowed at this stage in their careers? I'm sure you've realized by now that every rookie is destined to consistently look like their college highlight reel on a regular NFL basis. That's just what happens.

I do like Perine, though. I think he'll be pretty good.

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Re: Why is Perine being taken a round before Foreman?

Postby StableOfRBs » Mon Jul 17, 2017 3:11 pm

AzTheCrow wrote:
Mon Jul 17, 2017 2:48 pm
Perine rushed for a record 427 yards and four TDs in one game. I think he can be elite despite his label by many as a limited big back. He's fast and he can catch the ball very well, though I think his best assets are strength, durabilty, and no fear. He will put his foot in the ground and plow. He will be a good fantasy RB on a regular basis with many elite days sprinkled in as well.
-40 catches in 3 years as a starter
-4.65s 40 time
-7.26s 3-cone

I don't think Perine is a bad player (not convinced Kelley loses the job as quickly as people think he will, if at all) but he hasn't proven that he can be a consistent pass-catcher and he's certainly not fast, not saying whether Foreman is better or not but if you're gonna point out positives about Perine I wouldn't include his speed or his as-yet unproven receiving ability
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Re: Why is Perine being taken a round before Foreman?

Postby Goirish374 » Mon Jul 17, 2017 3:18 pm

Valhalla wrote:
Mon Jul 17, 2017 3:10 pm
HEY! Don't you know that only upside comments are allowed at this stage in their careers?
!

I thought I was safe as long as I didn't besmirch the honor of D'onte Foreman!
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Re: Why is Perine being taken a round before Foreman?

Postby AzTheCrow » Mon Jul 17, 2017 4:05 pm

StableOfRBs wrote:
Mon Jul 17, 2017 3:11 pm
AzTheCrow wrote:
Mon Jul 17, 2017 2:48 pm
Perine rushed for a record 427 yards and four TDs in one game. I think he can be elite despite his label by many as a limited big back. He's fast and he can catch the ball very well, though I think his best assets are strength, durabilty, and no fear. He will put his foot in the ground and plow. He will be a good fantasy RB on a regular basis with many elite days sprinkled in as well.
-40 catches in 3 years as a starter
-4.65s 40 time
-7.26s 3-cone

I don't think Perine is a bad player (not convinced Kelley loses the job as quickly as people think he will, if at all) but he hasn't proven that he can be a consistent pass-catcher and he's certainly not fast, not saying whether Foreman is better or not but if you're gonna point out positives about Perine I wouldn't include his speed or his as-yet unproven receiving ability
From what I've seen he catches the ball very smoothly. I know that may not have been his usage in college but I think NFL coaches can discern who can catch and who cannot. As for speed, when you rush for 427 yds you have to be out-running somebody at some point. Just holding that record has to speak to that. Sometimes game speed and 40 time are two different animals. I like what I've seen on tape whether it be "highlights" or not. After all, the highlights are what score the big points.
I'm not against Foreman, I just like Perine's game more.

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Re: Why is Perine being taken a round before Foreman?

Postby Valhalla » Mon Jul 17, 2017 4:18 pm

Goirish374 wrote:
Mon Jul 17, 2017 3:18 pm
Valhalla wrote:
Mon Jul 17, 2017 3:10 pm
HEY! Don't you know that only upside comments are allowed at this stage in their careers?
!

I thought I was safe as long as I didn't besmirch the honor of D'onte Foreman!
That's fair

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Re: Why is Perine being taken a round before Foreman?

Postby StableOfRBs » Mon Jul 17, 2017 4:32 pm

AzTheCrow wrote:
Mon Jul 17, 2017 4:05 pm
StableOfRBs wrote:
Mon Jul 17, 2017 3:11 pm
AzTheCrow wrote:
Mon Jul 17, 2017 2:48 pm
Perine rushed for a record 427 yards and four TDs in one game. I think he can be elite despite his label by many as a limited big back. He's fast and he can catch the ball very well, though I think his best assets are strength, durabilty, and no fear. He will put his foot in the ground and plow. He will be a good fantasy RB on a regular basis with many elite days sprinkled in as well.
-40 catches in 3 years as a starter
-4.65s 40 time
-7.26s 3-cone

I don't think Perine is a bad player (not convinced Kelley loses the job as quickly as people think he will, if at all) but he hasn't proven that he can be a consistent pass-catcher and he's certainly not fast, not saying whether Foreman is better or not but if you're gonna point out positives about Perine I wouldn't include his speed or his as-yet unproven receiving ability
From what I've seen he catches the ball very smoothly. I know that may not have been his usage in college but I think NFL coaches can discern who can catch and who cannot. As for speed, when you rush for 427 yds you have to be out-running somebody at some point. Just holding that record has to speak to that. Sometimes game speed and 40 time are two different animals. I like what I've seen on tape whether it be "highlights" or not. After all, the highlights are what score the big points.
I'm not against Foreman, I just like Perine's game more.
Sure it's a nice record to have but he did it against a team that ended up 3-9 and was pretty bad from a defensive standpoint and 2 games after that team's head coach was fired (which will throw off pretty much any team, NFL or college, for a bit) Perine had 34 carries in that game and sure 5 or 6 of them were big runs that made up the bulk of his yardage which is great that he can do that but what bothers me are the 17 carries he had that went for 4 or fewer yards against a pretty bad rushing defense and it's highly unlikely he'd see that kind of workload on any NFL team

A back like that can have success in the NFL, just look at Blount, the guy has been a hard-hitting, between-the-tackles runner since he came into the league and has had some pretty decent runs of 30+ yards over his career (although he is faster and bigger than Perine so that helps) but the only time he's ever produced at an elite level was last year when he broke 1000 rushing yards for the first time since his rookie year and scored 18 TDs on arguably the best offense in the NFL, yes Perine might be a better receiver than Blount is but he'll never eat into Chris Thompson's workload unless Thompson gets hurt, that's just his role on the team

Backs like that can be great runners and solid GL options but they work better as compliments, not true bell cows, and that's what you really need to put up true RB1 numbers year to year and I really don't want to have to pay the 1.07 price tag he's risen to over the past month or so for a potential RB2 when I could trade the pick for an RB2 + extra
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Re: Why is Perine being taken a round before Foreman?

Postby AzTheCrow » Mon Jul 17, 2017 7:44 pm

You make some good points Stable and I agree 1.07 is high for him. Overall I do like him better than Foreman though.

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Re: Why is Perine being taken a round before Foreman?

Postby IBall2 » Mon Jul 17, 2017 9:15 pm

Novacane wrote:
Thu Jul 13, 2017 3:49 pm
Goirish374 wrote:
Thu Jul 13, 2017 3:24 pm
ninotoreS wrote:
Thu Jul 13, 2017 3:06 pm
people that only do token research
at the risk of engaging in an entirely tangential discussion: that's a really interesting question.

what is the source of the data that go into the DLF ADP?

i had assumed that this ADP data came from the DLF mocks that McDowell put together, which in turn were comprised of DLF writers.

i am unable to reference or source this opinion it's just...what i always assumed.

if it's just compiled from MFL drafts or something...that certainly changes how i view that information.
I have participated in a few of these drafts. Ryan McDowell or Scott Fish send out an open invitation to anyone who wants to join. There is no vetting whatsoever.
Sorry, just bringing up this thread from page 3, but there is a tab in the ADP section of DLF to look at only the DLF writers rankings instead of the mock draft ADPs that go on multiple times every month. I think you have to be a paid subscriber to see these ranks though.

Right now it looks like the DLF writers have Perine at #14 and Foreman at #18 in rookie drafts.

You can see them at this link: https://dynastyleaguefootball.com/dynas ... -rankings/


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