Politics, religion, etc.

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Re: Politics, religion, etc.

Postby pun » Tue Dec 13, 2016 12:54 am

GLSmk wrote:socialism is ridiculous
pls essplain

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Re: What are we waiting for on Jordan Howard?

Postby clarion contrarion » Tue Dec 13, 2016 3:23 pm

dynastyninja wrote:
Lotto4Life wrote:
JFever wrote:Side note, my gut tells me you may be a climate change denier. Am I close?
You mean someone who embraces actual science?
Please continue, I'd like to see that "actual science."
late to the party here but WTH I am bored !

who in their right mind can deny climate change ?



it only means that the climate isn't the same as it was in the past , sure it changes if not it would be constant climate and that sounds sort of clunky ,in life one learns nearly everything changes save perhaps the intellectual arrogance of certain people with agendas they love to foist upon the masses.
Perhaps if the chicken little crowd weren't so freaked out and ready to do away with coal industry jobs,pay 4$ for a light bulb & drive electric cars because someone told them a polar bear missed a swimming lesson perhaps we might care. Failing to understand that a few short decades when the climate change alarmists were panicking over global cooling the same claptrap muttering was coming from accredited "SCIENTISTS" then perhaps people that are not so easily indoctrinated as the gullible and the malleable youth at the universities would be less dismissive of the prophecies of doom. Many species have adapted or died over the course of time and if the current plants or animals go that path it is nature's way even human's who are so arrogant as to think they are destined to be the height of scientific advancement without understanding this is an ant farm with cell phones. If there is no god then humans are the highest animals although watching many that point is very arguable If we are but animals , it should be mob rules and animalistic behavior is the normal expectation and result. Those that dismiss religion will ultimately turn back the clock on evolution as despite religion's many flaws and disastrous unintended consequences many of those lacking the self awareness or care for their fellow man were reigned in by fear of hell or whatever reward decent behavior could be thus rewarded. Usually those higher evolved creatures are the ones touting the model society , the thing is the ones who do not fear an eternal punishment or reward and are lesser evolved then have the freedom to hunt and they have free will to choose their prey and do as they wish. Without religion our penal code would be far different as would our societal mores and customs so hurry along in convincing people there is no god and be prepared for the unintended consequences of your teachings in a better manner than organized religion .
Dismiss god for science (thinking oddly of bill hicks skit-god&jesus burying dinosaur bones for sake of confusion) if you wish but then don't expect us to believe a planet that science tells us is billions of years old is in danger of being ruined by 30 or 40 years of warming come the **** on man .30 or 40 years or even a couple hundred years of data on temperature on a planet billions of years old is as important and concerning as bill gates would be if he dropped a quarter down the sewer grate. People by the millions rushing to a green lifestyle thinking individuals can make a difference like it will even matter the way china and india among others are polluting the planet both with toxins and population not to mention japan making the oceans glow is the height of the new "religious brain washing ". Organized religion is being replaced (which is a great thing IMHO) but it is being replaced by a retarded social conscience fed by special interests and flim flam science pumped out as a be all end all gospel. Like the idiots at the zoo telling me to live green by unplugging my cellphone charger to save the planet meanwhile the auditorium was like 65 degrees on a mid july 94 degree afternoon - I thought I wondered into the penguin habitat, my thought what an effing scam perhaps turn the thermostat up a few degrees all summer that would be like unplugging a few million cellphones for 50 centuries although I didn't track that actual math or hell crazy thought close one day a week give the monkeys & tigers a day off and use that day for polar bear swim lessons
The USA needs to do what is best for the USA and if trump can do that then if term limits are too harsh for congress then they are too harsh for someone who profiles as a patriot as opposed to the career politicians for sale to the higgest bidder owned by the big corporations. The political correct status quo is horrid and if he breaks a few eggs hey I love omelets anyway pass the red pepper .
Perhaps I am bit of an isolationist ! hail the monroe doctrine perhaps the trump doctrine will be referenced 193 years after he gets it put in place. Of course the military contractors always have their hawk alarmists drumming up new business with some tin can boogeyman trying to scare the populace and lead to massive investment as the world's policeman so that will be a tough chore to get crossed off the to do list especially with oil boy being named sec of state nominee .
almost done ! damn erratic but therapeutic as well !
Medicine has devolved from a science to a business for consumption by the masses full of profit driven tests and people w/ MD for a title that are little more than prescriptionists (my made up name for many dr. these days ) / legalized dope pushers pumping the insurance companies and consumers for every nickel. The MD should stand for making dollars as that is the primary function treating not curing is the current aim, as you can treat them for a lifetime but the visits stop when an issue is cured. Much the same as sheering a sheep many times but only get to skin them a single time.
So I would be very cautious in using medicine as an example of a valid science because the scientists in the medical field are far outnumbered by the profiteers. Many great minds are attempting to find cures no doubt but for many a citizen interactions with those people are few and far between crowded out by the desire for massive profits.
I will end this little screed with an apology for my descriptivist writing as it offends many of the those steeped in prescriptivist training .
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Re: Politics, religion, etc.

Postby whodunnit » Tue Dec 13, 2016 5:13 pm

pun wrote:
GLSmk wrote:socialism is ridiculous
pls essplain
explain how socialism is ridiculous? On a very basic level, What people earn should be theirs to keep. Depending on other people for your well-being is generally referred to as being lazy. Instead of hoping the government will give you 'free' things, get up, go out and work for it.

"The trouble with Socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money" — Margaret Thatcher
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Re: What are we waiting for on Jordan Howard?

Postby Jfever » Wed Dec 14, 2016 11:06 am

late to the party here but WTH I am bored !

who in their right mind can deny climate change ?

it only means that the climate isn't the same as it was in the past , sure it changes if not it would be constant climate and that sounds sort of clunky ,in life one learns nearly everything changes save perhaps the intellectual arrogance of certain people with agendas they love to foist upon the masses.
Perhaps if the chicken little crowd weren't so freaked out and ready to do away with coal industry jobs,pay 4$ for a light bulb & drive electric cars because someone told them a polar bear missed a swimming lesson perhaps we might care. Failing to understand that a few short decades when the climate change alarmists were panicking over global cooling the same claptrap muttering was coming from accredited "SCIENTISTS" then perhaps people that are not so easily indoctrinated as the gullible and the malleable youth at the universities would be less dismissive of the prophecies of doom. Many species have adapted or died over the course of time and if the current plants or animals go that path it is nature's way even human's who are so arrogant as to think they are destined to be the height of scientific advancement without understanding this is an ant farm with cell phones. If there is no god then humans are the highest animals although watching many that point is very arguable If we are but animals , it should be mob rules and animalistic behavior is the normal expectation and result. Those that dismiss religion will ultimately turn back the clock on evolution as despite religion's many flaws and disastrous unintended consequences many of those lacking the self awareness or care for their fellow man were reigned in by fear of hell or whatever reward decent behavior could be thus rewarded. Usually those higher evolved creatures are the ones touting the model society , the thing is the ones who do not fear an eternal punishment or reward and are lesser evolved then have the freedom to hunt and they have free will to choose their prey and do as they wish. Without religion our penal code would be far different as would our societal mores and customs so hurry along in convincing people there is no god and be prepared for the unintended consequences of your teachings in a better manner than organized religion .
Dismiss god for science (thinking oddly of bill hicks skit-god&jesus burying dinosaur bones for sake of confusion) if you wish but then don't expect us to believe a planet that science tells us is billions of years old is in danger of being ruined by 30 or 40 years of warming come the **** on man .30 or 40 years or even a couple hundred years of data on temperature on a planet billions of years old is as important and concerning as bill gates would be if he dropped a quarter down the sewer grate. People by the millions rushing to a green lifestyle thinking individuals can make a difference like it will even matter the way china and india among others are polluting the planet both with toxins and population not to mention japan making the oceans glow is the height of the new "religious brain washing ". Organized religion is being replaced (which is a great thing IMHO) but it is being replaced by a retarded social conscience fed by special interests and flim flam science pumped out as a be all end all gospel. Like the idiots at the zoo telling me to live green by unplugging my cellphone charger to save the planet meanwhile the auditorium was like 65 degrees on a mid july 94 degree afternoon - I thought I wondered into the penguin habitat, my thought what an effing scam perhaps turn the thermostat up a few degrees all summer that would be like unplugging a few million cellphones for 50 centuries although I didn't track that actual math or hell crazy thought close one day a week give the monkeys & tigers a day off and use that day for polar bear swim lessons
The USA needs to do what is best for the USA and if trump can do that then if term limits are too harsh for congress then they are too harsh for someone who profiles as a patriot as opposed to the career politicians for sale to the higgest bidder owned by the big corporations. The political correct status quo is horrid and if he breaks a few eggs hey I love omelets anyway pass the red pepper .
Perhaps I am bit of an isolationist ! hail the monroe doctrine perhaps the trump doctrine will be referenced 193 years after he gets it put in place. Of course the military contractors always have their hawk alarmists drumming up new business with some tin can boogeyman trying to scare the populace and lead to massive investment as the world's policeman so that will be a tough chore to get crossed off the to do list especially with oil boy being named sec of state nominee .
almost done ! damn erratic but therapeutic as well !
Medicine has devolved from a science to a business for consumption by the masses full of profit driven tests and people w/ MD for a title that are little more than prescriptionists (my made up name for many dr. these days ) / legalized dope pushers pumping the insurance companies and consumers for every nickel. The MD should stand for making dollars as that is the primary function treating not curing is the current aim, as you can treat them for a lifetime but the visits stop when an issue is cured. Much the same as sheering a sheep many times but only get to skin them a single time.
So I would be very cautious in using medicine as an example of a valid science because the scientists in the medical field are far outnumbered by the profiteers. Many great minds are attempting to find cures no doubt but for many a citizen interactions with those people are few and far between crowded out by the desire for massive profits.
I will end this little screed with an apology for my descriptivist writing as it offends many of the those steeped in prescriptivist training .[/quote]

Great entertainment, Thank you for taking the time. I'm not offended at all. I am however quite intrigued by the off putting takes that are well steeped in misinformation. It is a bit much, and I'm afraid I'll likely miss a few parts but, I'll bite the hook again...

1. Your views on religion are over simplified, and primitive. but, they are yours... I'd encourage you to look into the history of religion. You may learn a few things. I know you said you are against organized religion. I agree with you there, but there seems to be a few things off putting in your takes on religion and it's role. You, early on in your rambling bring up something called "intellectual arrogance". Let me ask you, where is your beliefs about religion rooted and how was it propagated. Yep, the very thing you start bashing is at the very core of your own beliefs. Somebody talked your parents, your grandparents, your great grandparents, your great great grandparents into it. When one says that and points a blaming finger at science, it is quite hypocritical as most don't hesitate to take the good, the medicine, the advances in technology that evidence through the scientific process has provided, but, when they hear something that doesn't resonate, they do this. You complain that medicine has turned into business. You can thank individuals exactly like TRUMP for that. It is business not health care. Preemptive / proactive health care however is rooted in education. It's cheaper.
2. Your understanding of Global climate change and the causes and effects are elementary at best. Matter of fact, I think tha is where most of your issues that need some clarity are. I'd encourage you to think hard about where in life you get your personal truth's from. Do you get your truth's from evidence or do you get your truth's from an authority figure? This is where your views of global warming and religion begin to blend together and we get a good view of the author's true origin. As far as global warming - "only meaning that it is changing" was a quote you used early on. Well, you are right but you are simultaneously virtually UN-informed, and over confident, and, sadly proud of it. Typical of most Americans. You have little concept of time and space / cause and effect. You get sucked into something without understanding big picture. It is unfortunately common.

Although you are right that the earth has gone through dozens of significant climate changes over the past 4.6 billion years and those cycles are natural, Never in recorded history have we seen such an abrupt spike in global climate change. You are simply wrong that it is based off of 30-40 years or even a couple hundred years of data or temperature readings. Look it up before your next fact less rant. I'm already looking forward to our conversations... Ice core samples give us 10's of thousands of years, and, ice core drilling is only one form among many forms of evidence that you probably have never even considered according to your rant. AND, NOW, to the point where you really need to start paying attention; This spike coincidentally coincides with a drastic up tic in human activity that relates to using carbon as a fuel source, it also correlates with the dramatic exponential growth of the human population dating back to the onset of the industrial revolution - And it also correlates with what is the most dramatic change in environmental conditions we have ever seen due to 1. massive increase in global agricultural demands. 2. use of land and water resources to raise beef (which happens to be worlds biggest supplier of Methane which is more potent than CO2 when it comes to causation of green house and global warming). 3. deforestation (think of why we are clear cutting). 4. urbanization. 5. Over fishing. 6. Industrialization and mass production of goods for global distribution. 5. massive addition of green house gases due to burning more fossil fuels coupled with loss of plant life. (if this one escapes your understanding, go to a real green house and check it out, or, just add a few quilts to your bed tonight to see what effect the additional blankets have on the quality of your night's sleep. 6. Drastic reduction in air and water quality in over populated urban areas.

You mention the jobs that oil drilling provided. Well, not to be overly insensitive to the few individuals that job or loss of that job affects but honestly on the global level of thought - That is of little consequence and is nothing but short sighted. We (most of us) live in a throw away world. A world where time is of the essence and we are always trying to save time and yet, with all these advancements, we are still, always in a hurry. A world were drive through and personal quick gratification out weighs patience, understanding and sacrifice. The world was not like this 150 years ago. Who the F cares about oil drilling jobs if in one - two generations, we (our descendants) won't be able to LIVE ON THE PLANET! And... they'll have us to blame. More specifically, people that have your way of thinking. How selfish and short sighted and arrogant - we (humans) have become. To gather data and ignore it. To rip on science if it tells us something we don't want to hear. Do you actually think that Scientist that are gathering information personally WANT this to be true? Do you not think that this data also effects their / all of our daily lives? I mean how frickin selfish and narcissistic can people be? It blows my mind and saddens me greatly.

You said "don't expect US to believe that a planet that is billions of year old will meet it's end based off of 30-40 years of us polluting it". I mean what is that? You do understand that we live and depend on a very narrow range. Like VERY narrow range of life sustaining properties. And if this range is manipulated even a little, life on this planet as you currently understand it will spiral and snowball out of control. YET, the planet itself will remain. Talk about talking about bleep you do not understand. And ultimately, as far as the planet is concerned, maybe, just maybe, that would be the very best thing. We are as humans, after-all, often times our own worst enemy.

As a Biologist, I personally see the Human race by far the greatest, most impact-full, and dangerous parasite on this planet. The craziest thing is some of us understand this, admit this, and are trying to do something about it by learning from our mistakes, by recognizing our selfishness and our tendencies and what those tendencies have done int he past... and yet others ignore it completely and embrace ignorance even to the point of defending it. THEN go on to propagate said ignorance and call it by a different name.

You do not understand science, what it is, and what it isn't. That is clear. AND, that is ok. We in the science community are doing the best we can daily. We are in the business of proving ourselves wrong. The views in science that were put out 20,30,40,50, 100 years ago were the best we had at the time, we currently are standing on the shoulders of giants, we are advancing what we know and learning learning from previous perceptions. We are collecting data and, some of that data, supports things we knew, some of it makes us take new looks. THAT is what science is. It is the Evidence that we go off of, NOT personal biases that fit a belief or a life style that we currently have.

So, in your world, us HUMANS have not had an impact on the world? Because the world is so big or because it's so old... and yet it is still here. We are just a higher order Animal. We own the world, we can make selfish short sighted decisions and continue to do so, because it's gotten us this far. Right... IN reality, it is that child like way of thinking that frankly is just procrastinating and putting the onus on our children and grand children to deal with the repercussions of our ignorance, stubbornness, and selfishness and, the world will go on, yet, it is quite likely that the quality of your grandchildren's lives will not be what you expect and possibly their lifestyles we wouldn't even recognize if we were to be able to see it. Extinctions are part if it all yes, but, when one species is the direct cause of a global mass extinction because of a chosen rather than needed life style approach, well, it may be time to take the rose colored glasses off and take notice of the cause and effect of some of our choices.

IMO, you can have your cartoon view of religion and some unfact based promise of some greater beyond after you die if that makes you feel good. For me, morality isn't tied to Religion of any kind in any way. Honestly, There is much about religions that never get discussed among the believers because they don't embrace certain parts of the history of their religion. Frankly this is simply cherry picking at its finest. If you truly are a true christian, then you are anti gay, anti woman rights, and that is that. Why, well because the book says so. That is why. I need no other reason right? To lead a good life and live by the golden rule, and leave things better than I found them is all I live by. I don't need false promises. AND that is a good thing as Religion is responsible for more un necessary human deaths than all wars combined. It is nothing more than child indoctrination that drives these cartoon beliefs. No educated thinking adult would ever buy into these silly beliefs. NOTHING more.

There are hundreds of religions most of which stem from 3-4 basic ones. Most humans (depending on where they are born) will be influenced by one of the following, Christianity, Museum, Hindu, or Jewish religious secs. All of these are functionally different. The roots of these have lead to billions of deaths, and each claim to be correct, and if nothing else, philosophy tells us that if each of them claim to be correct, then, they are all incorrect. The history of religion reveals even more BS about the actual motivating factors that lead to the manipulation of the writings most people (as innocent children) get spoon fed by. MAN wrote the Bible and the Koran, The Koran much more recent than the Bible by the way with fewer authors, and also edited each several times over, to increase personal, regional, governmental gains of riches, followings, taxpayers, and overall government power base on # of constituents / followers.

Seem odd to you?
Last edited by Jfever on Wed Dec 14, 2016 1:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Politics, religion, etc.

Postby Jfever » Wed Dec 14, 2016 11:35 am

GLSmk wrote:
pun wrote:
GLSmk wrote:socialism is ridiculous
pls essplain
explain how socialism is ridiculous? On a very basic level, What people earn should be theirs to keep. Depending on other people for your well-being is generally referred to as being lazy. Instead of hoping the government will give you 'free' things, get up, go out and work for it.

"The trouble with Socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money" — Margaret Thatcher
BUT...... We are a country that depends on a "certain" amount of socialism. Aren't we? AT A very basic level, socialism provides ALL with a similar starting point. A common ground from which to start from. A basic level of commonality.... Does it not? If this is something you are against, I see nothing but hypocrisy and lack of fundamental knowledge. Most bitch about socialism but gladly reap the benefits. Comical, yet typical of most WWF watching, miller lite drinking, NASCAR fans that get their information from paid off biased news media outlets and cant remember the last book they've read beginning to end.

The thing with the roots of socialism is this. It is at the very root of the rationality of humans living in groups, cities, towns, societies, etc. It is something that started as a survival strategy. A strategy that is still used by many animals to this day. We have taken it to another level with our monetary components, but our Taxes are something that benefit all. Some are more capable of paying but, the taxes still benefit. If you truly don't like socialism AT ALL even after you figure out what it actually is, move out to the middle of no where, make your own living away from society, educate your own children, grow and hunt your own food, and, keep to yourself. It's all good. There is plenty of room in Alaska. Good luck.
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Re: Politics, religion, etc.

Postby whodunnit » Wed Dec 14, 2016 3:54 pm

JFever wrote:
GLSmk wrote: explain how socialism is ridiculous? On a very basic level, What people earn should be theirs to keep. Depending on other people for your well-being is generally referred to as being lazy. Instead of hoping the government will give you 'free' things, get up, go out and work for it.

"The trouble with Socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money" — Margaret Thatcher
BUT...... We are a country that depends on a "certain" amount of socialism. Aren't we? AT A very basic level, socialism provides ALL with a similar starting point. A common ground from which to start from. A basic level of commonality.... Does it not? If this is something you are against, I see nothing but hypocrisy and lack of fundamental knowledge. Most bitch about socialism but gladly reap the benefits. Comical, yet typical of most WWF watching, miller lite drinking, NASCAR fans that get their information from paid off biased news media outlets and cant remember the last book they've read beginning to end.

The thing with the roots of socialism is this. It is at the very root of the rationality of humans living in groups, cities, towns, societies, etc. It is something that started as a survival strategy. A strategy that is still used by many animals to this day. We have taken it to another level with our monetary components, but our Taxes are something that benefit all. Some are more capable of paying but, the taxes still benefit. If you truly don't like socialism AT ALL even after you figure out what it actually is, move out to the middle of no where, make your own living away from society, educate your own children, grow and hunt your own food, and, keep to yourself. It's all good. There is plenty of room in Alaska. Good luck.
just for starters... never watched Nascar or WWF, and I have never consumed alcohol...and I've read several books beginning to end, usually 2 or 3 a week. So, go ahead and assume you know me.

Now, I understand what "true socialism" is, but I also understand that the majority of America realizes what someone is referring to when they mention socialism. People vying for 'free' college, and wanting the government to bail them out when they cannot pay their bills. People take out $80k-$200k in student loans and think they shouldn't have to pay it back. If you don't want to pay back a loan commitment, feel free to work through college and earn it the way many people do, instead of enacting your sense of entitlement to get everything handed to you. (not you specifically, just my pathetic generation in general).

I really do hate being a part of this 'millenial' generation.

I really would like to see a much smaller government sometime in my life.
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Re: Politics, religion, etc.

Postby clarion contrarion » Wed Dec 14, 2016 8:05 pm

JFever wrote: "The trouble with Socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money" — Margaret Thatcher
BUT...... We are a country that depends on a "certain" amount of socialism. Aren't we? AT A very basic level, socialism provides ALL with a similar starting point. A common ground from which to start from. A basic level of commonality.... Does it not? If this is something you are against, I see nothing but hypocrisy and lack of fundamental knowledge. Most bitch about socialism but gladly reap the benefits. Comical, yet typical of most WWF watching, miller lite drinking, NASCAR fans that get their information from paid off biased news media outlets and cant remember the last book they've read beginning to end.

The thing with the roots of socialism is this. It is at the very root of the rationality of humans living in groups, cities, towns, societies, etc. It is something that started as a survival strategy. A strategy that is still used by many animals to this day. We have taken it to another level with our monetary components, but our Taxes are something that benefit all. Some are more capable of paying but, the taxes still benefit. If you truly don't like socialism AT ALL even after you figure out what it actually is, move out to the middle of no where, make your own living away from society, educate your own children, grow and hunt your own food, and, keep to yourself. It's all good. There is plenty of room in Alaska. Good luck.[/quote]
sounds like a tacit endorsement of socialism at the very least . But in your long rambling post (tasty irony alert ) illustrating my point of intellectual arrogance you think that no sacrifice (other peoples jobs , convenience or freedom) is too great for the sake of humanity so long as it is one you do not have to make ! Like al gore jetting around the country printing books about the evil affects of greenhouse gases and how the unwashed masses need to sacrifice meanwhile building his 30,000 (or whatever) square foot house. Or obama preaching the climate change claptrap and having a 40 SUV caravan that came for a visit to my indiana town to save some jobs.
If you really give a damn about global warming convince all your science pals to move to alaska , unplug all your stuff, grow your own food and make your own clothes. Or better yet as I tell most tree hugging warriors instead of marching around with billboards made of paper or cardboard to stfu and go get busy planting trees and selling all of your electronics , sell your car and buy a bike . Like all those that think the human race should be culled none ever lead by example , but no the extra people are always other people .
So wrapping up I will have a steak ,drive my V8 and burn coal for heat until I get prepped for the incinerator myself. But in my experience , that do gooder spirit is laced with such rampant hypocrisy in that it is doing good by the standard you set and the massive assumption that you are right and all else is wrong . Pretty unscientific it seems to me , you quote newton but as one of the smartest people of his time he was only scratching the surface and he knew it I would imagine. I would also imagine that while he knew he was smarter than most he was wise enough not to act like he was smarter than most. As much or more damage has been done by really smart people with little or no wisdom than has been done by religion. Religion itself is responsible for little of the damage it is the indoctrination mentality where people that use religion as a method of influence hide behind it and twist its meaning being the prime example or profit driven greedy jackasses pretending to use religion as the reason for conquest or amassing wealth. You preach the golden rule is what you live by ... but where the hell do you think that comes from at least for the masses it comes from a religious context. Most people that hate religion and use it for a punchline dismiss all the good it has done and all the wisdom found in many religious texts . That also seems to be a pretty unscientific method, you recognize all my blanket generalizations and myopically dodder along unaware of your own. The truest practitioners of religion are like the truest practitioners of medical science they do it from the purest of motives with little to no interest in profit so lumping them all together is just as crass abuse of the truth as was perhaps my small sample size view of medicine.
I will assume you will dismiss all of this and if so that is fine as I do not your ideal standard and thus have no business or right to my opinion or view of the facts . What I do know is that so many in the realm of science in the past have accepted universal scientific doctrine only to have those ideas revised by the new truth. I do not think I know all the answers but I also do not think anyone else does for a fact either as so much of the vanguard of religious & scientific teaching from the past has been turned on its head . So, instead of lecturing the masses on their careless apelike consumerism and habits, be a hero and find a cure/fix for global warming/climate change that allows humans to do what we do without altering our lifestyles to our inconvenience. We tried to kill all the buffalo and eat them to cure the methane problem afore you scientists even knew it was an issue but the do gooders put an end to that.
be henry ford or ben franklin don't be al gore ... now run along and get busy I won't keep you any longer , I have to fire up my grill I have a steak to eat.
.....this has been a public service announcement from forum superstar clarion contrarion
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Re: Politics, religion, etc.

Postby Jfever » Thu Dec 15, 2016 11:22 am

Nope, not a tactic or an endorsement. Only a clarifying statement, as I feel that most loosely throw the word Socialism around and use it in an overly derogatory manor, yet nearly ALL US citizens benefit from the current mildly socialist approach. Socialism is used hundreds of millions of Americans daily. It isn't an evil empire type thing at all. As far as me personally, You have no idea of the sacrifices I have made and do make in my life. I do not live beyond my means. I do not buy things I do not need. I drive a vehicle (it is a 1998 jeep grand Cherokee - v8) but I live in Mn and my jeep has 289,879 miles on it. I hunt, Bow hunt, and I fish and my family and I eat what I bring home. From Walleyes, to Venison, to pheasant and turkey. I grow a garden, we use the food from garden, all of it. Honestly, not to get on a pedestal or anything, but, if all American's lived in a similar fashion as myself, We Would certainly have less pollution, less impulse buying, less pollution, less dependence on beef, etc. It isn't near as simple as you hint at as It isn't my job to convince people to move anywhere / particularly Alaska. Rather, It is my job to help people to navigate through the world and be an informed contributor in society. I try to teach people how to think critically. How they chose to do that is on them. As in, I don't care about their actual choices, but I trust that if they are taught how to make well thought out informed decisions with critical thinking skills at the foundation of their approach to deciphering evidence, I wont have to worry about what end decision is. I'm not a huge fan of having electronics take over peoples lives. I do not do facebook, twitter, snapchat, instagram, etc. I do have a smart phone but I use it the old fashion way. To call my wife & kids and so they can call me. And of course to check my fantasy sports. I do my best to lead by example without completely moving off the grid. I would like to do more in the way of self sustaining my energy usage. If we could find a way to make solar panels or wind energy harnessing systems more affordable - I'd do it. AND, I bet a whole lot of people that think similar to me, would too. This is something that is very doable.

- Not sure what to take from this 2nd paragraph rant. There is virtually nothing good or NEEDED from religion that an individual cannot get without religion. All the good that has been done by most religions in their history's has been done with some type of return in mind. Whether that return be to join a congregation or what have you, It is still all good that can be done by any group of people with no tie to religion at all. Religion is not the cause of the good doing, being human is. There is a distinction there. There is no moral need and morals do not come to us via higher powers. They just don't. But, I digress, I personally don't care what you waste your time worrying about. If its religion you need, I'm ok with it as long as you mind your own business about it. I still celebrate Christmas, but is isn't because it is Christ's birthday. I'm informed enough to know that Jesus was actually born in Nazareth not Bethlehem and he wasn't born in December either. So. Agian - Tough one for most people that get spoon fed information from the time that they can speak. But, Christmas can be so many different things than falsely celebrating someones birthday. It is a spirit, a togetherness, a feeling of love, peace, family, warmth, of giving being more important that receiving. That is what is celebrated at my house anyway. Newton was a very smart individual. HE was primarily a man of his time. Typically, men of knowledge during his time, were tied to the church, and at his time most people were quite religious. As was Newton. I don't blame him. Just like I wouldn't blame him just as I wouldn't blame someone that lived in northern Scandinavia 500 years ago for believing in Thor. It was the norm. Norms change with education... He was semi christian but he was first and foremost a scientific thinker, a person of deep thought and reflection. He knew he didn't know it all. And I agree with you in that being a good thing.

You wrote and finished with; " So, instead of lecturing the masses on their careless apelike consumerism and habits, be a hero and find a cure/fix for global warming/climate change that allows humans to do what we do without altering our lifestyles to our inconvenience. We tried to kill all the buffalo and eat them to cure the methane problem afore you scientists even knew it was an issue but the do gooders put an end to that.
be Henry ford or Ben Franklin don't be al gore ... now run along and get busy I won't keep you any longer , I have to fire up my grill I have a steak to eat."

Now, as far as me fixing this, well, that isn't realistic. Educating more people can still work however. I wouldn't call it being a hero, I'd call it trying to do the right thing. I don't think we can "FiX" it either, but we can mediate things and limit the damage or disruptions long term. I don't think we should continue to do what we have been doing. I think a lot of the things we've been doing were rooted in ignorance and now that we know more, it is on us to accept it, and make adjustments to our behavior and choices. That seems a bit more adult like doesn't it? Anyway, the buffalo thing you brought up and tied into the methane levels was just flat out stupid, but Im assuming you knew that. That was a political move buy the US government to wipe out the Native Americans. Pathetic, short sighted, under informed idiots. What a tremendously embarrassing act. And I can only hope your take on it was tongue in cheek. Anyway, It isn't easy to change peoples life styles, We are afterall, creatures of habit. This is precisely why early childhood indoctrination with religious stories is so effective and tough to break even when ALL the evidence points us in the direction of logic. Kids don't start learning about the science way of thinking and questioning of things in Public schools until years later. Home schooling and private schools kids may NEVER hear lessons on what the scientific method is. Ever. Now..... that is a scary thing. But, at least those people have socialism aspects of this country to bail them out of the inevitable mess they will likely stumble into.
Last edited by Jfever on Thu Dec 15, 2016 12:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Politics, religion, etc.

Postby clarion contrarion » Thu Dec 15, 2016 12:12 pm

Now that tone and presentation is easier to respect and appreciate than the tone of your earlier posts , I was being being facetious or tongue in cheek about the buffalo as to me the native american culture is fascinating in so many aspects whereby they had what so many strive for today a culture that lived light on the land and made use of that which they could attain themselves . Everyone had a job mostly and was expected to do it there was a social contract without it being true socialism alas they probably still failed as they did believe in something outside and greater than themselves . You say that any benefits the church/religion provided are available to the masses free of religious overtones and that I would agree with why however it the arc of human ascension from pollywogs or wherever we came from have so few attained your ideal of moral perfection without a golden rule type teaching . If it is so natural and so easy we did not it become the standard without the rise of organized religion ? The reason your morals are not your neighbors morals in the past if an indian stole horses he were revered ,it was honorable to steal if anglos or western europeans stole horses they could hanged who was right ?
They were deemed savages as many of their customs didn't mesh with the civilized white Christians but moreover they were a nuisance to those looking to make money from the land and resources . When in reality the new "settlers were an invasion akin to a plague of locusts into near perfectly evolved societies for their particular needs. Eh talk about breaking eggs to make an omelet. That is neither, white mans guilt or revisionist history it is simply accepting some harsh truths that cannot be undone . Socialism has millions of deaths on its resume' and the standard operating procedure is the few decide for the many .They assume they are better qualified , smarter and should decide the fates of the many .In theory ,awesome , a streamlined chain of command equals sleeker more responsive action time to solutions . However adding in corruption and human frailty and greed that system becomes the waiting room to the mortuary for millions it is in fact a great system if you are among the elite few and a terrible system for the many.
You sound like someone I could call friend (the hunting and fishing and growing your own food is admirable) were I seeing how you live on a daily basis but I still tell my friends occasionally and they tell me to chill the EFF out when I or they get full of themselves . I do some stuff considered eco friendly but only for my own convenience or personal preference as 1 person on his own cannot make a difference when up against corporations and a government that preach the sacrifice of others is OK but rarely hold themselves to the same standard. I remember seeing the ridiculous band devo back when I was young and upon learning what it stood for made a mental note of it but as I have grown older they nailed it although their presentation was moronic . We are devolving and have already peaked like a bullet fired directly into the sky at some point gravity takes over and forces it back to the ground that is my jaded view of humanity. While it is sad for my children and grandchildren ,I tell them I love them I try to keep my jadedness bottled up and fill them with optimism for their sake not mine they need to believe in humanity and its possibilities so they can achieve their own happiness. I am happy even knowing people are ridiculous and our society is decaying in the name of progress as no one is responsible for my happiness besides me and I was raised in a time by people that didn't need to provide a safe space , they provided food clothing and shelter and taught me to stand up for myself even if it meant being a lone wolf. You may regain others respect but it is hard to regain respect for yourself once lost ... the self loathing snowflake mentality will be the end of our culture either from within or from the outside after the once proud exoskeleton is hollowed out dried up like a locust husk blowing in the wind .
.....this has been a public service announcement from forum superstar clarion contrarion
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Re: Politics, religion, etc.

Postby clarion contrarion » Wed Dec 21, 2016 11:00 am

so is the first snow in the sahara desert in 37 years a good sign that climate change is headed in the right direction or the wrong? I mean if we are worried about global warming that would seem to be a good sign no? But, I fear this may be the precursor to a new ice age and as such I should side with the climate change alarmists running around chicken little style screeching.

"THE WORLD IS COOLING THE WORLD IS COOLING"
.....this has been a public service announcement from forum superstar clarion contrarion
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Re: Politics, religion, etc.

Postby Jfever » Thu Dec 22, 2016 7:28 am

clarion contrarion wrote:so is the first snow in the sahara desert in 37 years a good sign that climate change is headed in the right direction or the wrong? I mean if we are worried about global warming that would seem to be a good sign no? But, I fear this may be the precursor to a new ice age and as such I should side with the climate change alarmists running around chicken little style screeching.

"THE WORLD IS COOLING THE WORLD IS COOLING"
Ok. I'm hesitating here and trying not to think of you as a simpleton. It is hard in this particular case however. 37 years... wtf! :roll:

"Global warming" isn't as simple as - The whole world gets warmer. This isn't an Elementary school thing. It is rather a change in global climate patterns. Besides, to make a statement rooted in a 37 year time frame is nothing shy of a waste of my time. But, once again, I'll bite and make an attempt to reach out to make the change that needs to be made. It first starts with education. So.... here goes.

Think of it like this. You have about 7.16 billion people, (keep in mind 20 years ago we had around 5 billion people on Earth), most of which live in areas that are fitting, to somewhat fitting, for human habitation. Also worth noting, most humans on earth live quite close in proximity to the oceans of the world. In areas close to the sea, we have in a very short amount of time, unprecedented in human history (like 100,000 years) - drastic to very drastic changes in seasonal weather patterns, (Spring comes earlier or later, planting season is off by a bit, winters come earlier, are wetter, etc) causing massive problems in agriculture (which nearly all settlements were / are still rooted in because we need food and fresh water) and food production. Many millions at this very moment, are forced with a hard decision to move away from a place, that for many many generations was called their home. (this means they have to move somewhere, remember this for an upcoming point that you should probably pay attention to as it has national security implications). Regional shifts in weather patterns are going to be the new normal. Meaning what was once semi predictable, will become less and less predictable, and basically, less "normal" if we want to call it that. This will occur in places regardless of human settlement. Meaning, yes, some places will inevitably get a tad warmer while some places will experience some cooling patterns. But not the normal subtle shifts we've seen over millions of year gradual changes, rather, abrupt, quick, drastic, and unpredictable shifts. It is the way the oceans and atmosphere balance energy. They can handle gradual fluctuation, but, it is quite difficult to manage large energy shifts in short amounts of time without some major changes. The issue that should stick in your craw is that for the entire history of Mankind, the patterns have been conducive to a certain approach to living. That approach now is under significant threat. (funny that you make light of it actually). Thus, our way of living that has worked well for quite some time - is also, now under significant threat. NOT so much for me and you. RATHER, for our kids, grandkids and beyond as these changes are still gradual and move at a pace that our brains aren't used to calculating. Besides our life spans are around 70-80, maybe 90 years, and significant changes take a bit longer than that. Tough to notice if your watching, but, noticeable when measuring with appropriate equipment and computer models.

We will be forced to change our current ways of living significantly or move. Problem is, 71-72% of earth's surface is ocean. This leaves about 28% land. Of that land, not all is habitable for us. Some is mountain range, some is arctic, some is swamp, some is desert, some needs to be set aside for food production etc. Not all of that 28% can grow food for the exponentially growing population of humans who (each and every one) continue to want more and more stuff as they see other have things. They naturally then covet. So, ultimately, this poses a major risk to the current ways of living to every person living in a developed or semi developed country. Immigration will be a massive issue as people will simply become more and more desperate to do whatever they have to do for themselves and their families and will quite simply be forced to go places. Here in lies the threat to the national security. Not just of the US, nope, not that simple. The national security of every single developed country will be increasingly tested as there is and will continue to be a flood of immigration of desperate people that are forced to leave their homeland.

Sounds pleasant and joke worthy now doesn't it?

Trying to oversimplify this issue and make light of it in a childish joke does very little for you in my eyes.

The Trump like joke of a comment only really shows the complete lack in your understanding of the massive global problem your way of thinking has created and continues to perpetuate. It saddens me.

Maybe a different approach will work for you.... If you'd like some real estate advice, I'll give ya some. Since you firmly believe this is a non issue and one worth joking about. Go to a bank, get the biggest loan you can, drive down to southern Florida, and start buying as much property and real estate as you can. Then, in about 15-20 years when you can only access your investment with scuba gear, maybe you'll understand the implications of your silly comment.

Last weekend in central Minnesota the air temperature not including any wind chill calculations was -31 degrees in my town. Yesterday, today and tomorrow, (just 4-6 days) temperatures have been and are expected to be in the mid to upper 40's with rain. THAT is not normal. I looked. About 70-75 ish degree swings in temperature, in a matter of just 4-ish days at this time of the year.... hmmm? Something smells fishy. So, while your childish desert example brings up a small cooling pattern in an area that is traditionally not snowy (and you take some grandiose meaning from it and make light of it, other areas of the world experience the opposite and completely abnormal patterns as the globe attempts to balance energy.
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Re: Politics, religion, etc.

Postby Jfever » Fri Feb 03, 2017 10:55 am

So, after 2014, we determined that the global avg temp was as high as we've ever seen in nearly ALL of our readings, then, 2015, we determined that the calendar year of 2015 was the warmest avg year EVER recorded. Warmest on record. Since records started being kept. Now, after 2016, we see we set a new record, and 2016 is now the new warmest record. Congrats on the achievement. Lets see how long we can keep this going everyone!

We like breaking and setting records right?

:clap:
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Re: Politics, religion, etc.

Postby Day Man » Fri Feb 03, 2017 11:32 am

Fantasy football is my religion.

Being the vice commissioner is my politics.
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Re: Politics, religion, etc.

Postby cowboysfan » Mon May 22, 2017 5:52 pm

I may get stoned or worse....laughed at but I'm a Christian and believe in Christ and God's word. Most people I know will laugh at and mock the only man who died for their sins and that's sad. If you have different beliefs I can understand that. I think we are all entitled to our views and beliefs and not everyone believes as I do. I understand that. No matter what you believe or don't believe take it easy and be safe. Btw...anyone have an opening in a free start up 12 team dynasty league on espn? Non IDP. 😇

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Re: Politics, religion, etc.

Postby lukkynumber13 » Mon May 22, 2017 6:50 pm

cowboysfan wrote: Mon May 22, 2017 5:52 pm I may get stoned or worse....laughed at but I'm a Christian and believe in Christ and God's word. Most people I know will laugh at and mock the only man who died for their sins and that's sad. If you have different beliefs I can understand that. I think we are all entitled to our views and beliefs and not everyone believes as I do. I understand that. No matter what you believe or don't believe take it easy and be safe. Btw...anyone have an opening in a free start up 12 team dynasty league on espn? Non IDP. 😇
I was going to say it's awesome to see another brother in Christ on this forum, until you said you don't play IDP!!! You heretic! :P
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