Did Jesus Christ die and rise rom the dead?

[Jfever]

Love this site.. i'm 57 not trying to start a fuss, been through a few things in my life , to reply to this thread though : Jesus Died & Rose From The Dead For US ALL , I would hate to be Near Death & Not Know Him As My Savior, Think on it Hard, & Read the NEW Testament, he also came to set the Temple System ( Church ) straight . Yeah Coog , I hear you, all those wars , some fought in the name of Religion, and the Powers That Be , & the Bankers, All things that Benefit THEM , also in this Country, They Keep Us Divided so THEY can RULE us all , if we could ever ALL come together , maybe just maybe , we could CHANGE Things for the GOOD of all of us, oh well its nice to Dream sometimes.

Persecution complex. The country is 80% Christian and yet somehow "they" are ruling and you want what's best for "all of us". Total nonsense of course. If the world is screwed up it's in a large part because of Christianity. Ask a Native American or a homosexual if they wanted your help. Ask a scientist. Christianity has been standing in the way of history for 16 centuries, and little has changed. Why protect the environment if God won't let us all die?

The country is not "80% Christian". Not even close.

hmmmm, Apparently elected politicians are though..... Look into the admitted religion of all elected politicians. You'll notice that next to zero are admitted atheists. Seems an odd and perplexing statistic. And, even though I agree that our country isn't 80% christian, it most certainly is made up of a christian majority. Sadly. Propagation of lies needs to stop. There was a time when Religion served a purpose. It helped, it facilitated education, it pushed for science in the vain attempt that science would return the favor. As it turned out, Science now pushed society forward while Religion holds it back and holds onto medieval practices and beliefs. Religion will not provide valuable predictive properties, only Science and the scientific method can and will do this.

[Goddard]

My wife asked me today what was going to happen to all the churches when people stopped going to them. Point was, less and less people are religious and at some point, all religion will disappear. Probably not in any of our lifetimes, but at some point it will.

[Jfever]

Yep, Goddard, This seems to be an undeniable trend. Much of Europe, The Scandinavian countries, Austraila, Japan, and even Canada are doing very well here. Sadly, and unfortunately, the United States are grouped right in there with Turkey, Iran, Iraq, and much of the uneducated / disillusioned middle east as it pertains to overall religiosity. IN the USA though, it is much more of a revinue generating busness model. This among other things should resonate with people and at least encourage them to question and be skeptical.

As more and more information is available to more and more humans around the globe, they will inevitably become more educated. There is a direct correlation between education level and level of religiosity. First Education and then as a direct result - Technology will likely be the downfall of these ancient primitive belief systems. Just as there is a direct correlation to females and female rights and education level and family size, education level and certain types of criminal behavior, education level and personal health, education level and sexually transmitted disease, education level and dental health, even education level and voting frequency. Bill Nye wrote a book called "Undeniable" from 2015. He does an excellent job in this book discussing in an easy to understand format which explains the discrepancies with many modern day religions and particularly the young Earth creationist skewed, non fact based, miracle dependent, magic based opinions and points of view. If you are somewhat on the fense or otherwise would like to become more aware of topics dealing with this Jesus / Religion problem / global issue - Other authors of note that may prove to be quite informing - Richard Dawkins and his book "The God Delusion"2005 , Richard Dawkins book "The Greatest Show on Earth" 2009, Christopher Hitchens "God is not Great" 2007, Lawrence Kraus, "A Universe from Nothing" 2012, and other notable contributors that you could look up on You-tube - Neil Degrass Tyson, Danniel Dennett, and I'd be remiss if I didn't mention Sam Harris.

All highly accomplished incredibly intelligent, well spoken, articulate, and successful and informed people. All of which do an excellent job of respectfully (most of the time) stating the case that there is no real need for any religion.

[kadun2]

Frank Turek PhD and Norman Geisler have authored a good book also -
“I don’t have enough faith to be an atheist”

[kadun2]

My wife asked me today what was going to happen to all the churches when people stopped going to them. Point was, less and less people are religious and at some point, all religion will disappear. Probably not in any of our lifetimes, but at some point it will.

The Bible prophesies about this degeneration of society (2 Timothy 3:1-5)

[Dynasty DeLorean]

My wife asked me today what was going to happen to all the churches when people stopped going to them. Point was, less and less people are religious and at some point, all religion will disappear. Probably not in any of our lifetimes, but at some point it will.

The Bible prophesies about this degeneration of society (2 Timothy 3:1-5)

lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good, treacherous, rash, conceited

So this is what you think of all non-religious people?

[kadun2]

My wife asked me today what was going to happen to all the churches when people stopped going to them. Point was, less and less people are religious and at some point, all religion will disappear. Probably not in any of our lifetimes, but at some point it will.

The Bible prophesies about this degeneration of society (2 Timothy 3:1-5)

lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good, treacherous, rash, conceited

So this is what you think of all non-religious people?

My opinion of anyone does not matter here. I was merely pointing out scripture that related to Goddard’s speculation. Reinforcing it, so to speak. A reference, if you will.

[Dynasty DeLorean]

The Bible prophesies about this degeneration of society (2 Timothy 3:1-5)

lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good, treacherous, rash, conceited

So this is what you think of all non-religious people?

My opinion of anyone does not matter here. I was merely pointing out scripture that related to Goddard’s speculation. Reinforcing it, so to speak. A reference, if you will.

But you already injected your opinion by labeling it the "degeneration of society."

[Jfever]

Belief in something like a god without good evidence is the issue I have. Billions of people unfortunately fall for this for a variety of explaination and understandable reasons. I'll bring up something here to consider; a process of how a belief can provide evidence or support for another. As evidence accumulates, ones confidence in that belief may increase, as evidence is called into question, ones confidence may diminish. So, as it pertains to undermining a belief, in this case, the belief in any God or gods, or supernatural magic deity, based off and rooted in any type of ancient human authored scripture, the basic idea is that a belief is undermined by new information when the new info takes away the support of the belief. This is how progress of thought, knowledge, and technology occur. So, let's consider the following thought example- "Suppose for example, you believe that 'Hound Dog' was written by the song writing team of Lieber and Stoller. You believe this because you read it in a copy of the Elvis Newsletter. But then you learn that the Elvis newsletter is unreliable; it is produced by a passionate, devoted yet careless fan who gets his facts wrong as often as right. So, you come to doubt whether the newsletter can be trusted, and as a result, your confidence that Lieber and Stoller wrote 'Hound Dog' is weakened. You are now forced to ( in light of new and current info to at minimum, question what you thought you believed). This simple logic, and it disturbs me greatly that otherwise intelligent and successful people get tripped up by missing the obvious.

In the year 2018 vs say the year 150 ad, 1500ad, , 1700, etc, *** The only real explaination is blinders and ear plugs for many. Or, perhaps poor availability of education or strong childhood indoctrination. The uncanny ability for modern man to ignore or minimize mountains of scientific evidence from multiple independent fields of study in favor of a small hill of scripture based writings of unknown authorship is troubling to say it lightly.

[Jfever]

Frank Turek PhD and Norman Geisler have authored a good book also -
“I don’t have enough faith to be an atheist”

Simple proof that all phD's are not equal.

[kadun2]

So this is what you think of all non-religious people?

My opinion of anyone does not matter here. I was merely pointing out scripture that related to Goddard’s speculation. Reinforcing it, so to speak. A reference, if you will.

But you already injected your opinion by labeling it the "degeneration of society."

Then why did you ask?
That is the word of God, not my opinion. If that strikes a nerve with you then maybe you should look into it further (the Bible).

[kadun2]

Frank Turek PhD and Norman Geisler have authored a good book also -
“I don’t have enough faith to be an atheist”

Simple proof that all phD's are not equal.

Yes, I agree, there are MANY educated fools. Frank Turek is not one of them.

[Jfever]

Wow. It's my experiance in matters like this that a large % of people respond differently to this type of logical discussion. It seems clear that Azthecrow, you have somehow missed my point entirely by choosing to simply physically not read it, or, somehow you've chosen to take something personal and are therefore choosing to ignore my main points, which I felt I made quite clear and easy to comprehend.

My gut tells me you have been indoctrinated at a young age. It isn't your fault. I too was indoctrinated as a child. It wasnt till I was in my early to mid 30's that I did I start to gain the ability to look at just why I believed what I thought I did believe or what I was supposed to believe / what my church and family seemed to beleive. Many things simply didn't add up to what you think they currently do. But through exhaustive personal research, questioning, and skeptical thought, I've become much more understanding of the history of religion, life, morality, and the subject matter of this thread. The Bible is a great work of literature. It is not a historical account of life, morality. It and it's claims isn't to be taken literal. Any reference to it push circular arguments. The same ones that have been going on for 200 plus years. Since the publication of Darwin's Origin of species however, it has been a very very one sided affair. Religion currently in 2018 is fighting a losing battle. Why? Because information is more available to more people than ever before in history and that fact isn't likely to trend away from this direction.

* To lower the accomplishments of the authors I listed above without looking into the point I was making is simply at the very root of the issue / problem we are discussing. Turek actually debated Christopher Hitchens. Im assuming you weren't aware of that debate because if you were, you likely wouldn't change your stance on him. . Youd YouTube that debate! I'm confident it will, at minimum, shine some light on Turek's validity. One the sides here has a gradual build up of logic, reason, and evidence on it's side. The other historically trains it's children (which grow up into adults)to ignore, and be prepared for "false" evidence.

What a shame.

[kadun2]

Wow. It's my experiance in matters like this that a large % of people respond differently to this type of logical discussion. It seems clear that Azthecrow, you have somehow missed my point entirely by choosing to simply physically not read it, or, somehow you've chosen to take something personal and are therefore choosing to ignore my main points, which I felt I made quite clear and easy to comprehend.

My gut tells me you have been indoctrinated at a young age. It isn't your fault. I too was indoctrinated as a child. It wasnt till I was in my early to mid 30's that I did I start to gain the ability to look at just why I believed what I thought I did believe or what I was supposed to believe / what my church and family seemed to beleive. Many things simply didn't add up to what you think they currently do. But through exhaustive personal research, questioning, and skeptical thought, I've become much more understanding of the history of religion, life, morality, and the subject matter of this thread. The Bible is a great work of literature. It is not a historical account of life, morality. It and it's claims isn't to be taken literal. Any reference to it push circular arguments. The same ones that have been going on for 200 plus years. Since the publication of Darwin's Origin of species however, it has been a very very one sided affair. Religion currently in 2018 is fighting a losing battle. Why? Because information is more available to more people than ever before in history and that fact isn't likely to trend away from this direction.

* To lower the accomplishments of the authors I listed above without looking into the point I was making is simply at the very root of the issue / problem we are discussing. Turek actually debated Christopher Hitchens. Im assuming you weren't aware of that debate because if you were, you likely wouldn't change your stance on him. . Youd YouTube that debate! I'm confident it will, at minimum, shine some light on Turek's validity. One the sides here has a gradual build up of logic, reason, and evidence on it's side. The other historically trains it's children (which grow up into adults)to ignore, and be prepared for "false" evidence.

What a shame.

I’m sorry if my responses offended you ( or anyone else). We are obviously at opposite points of perspective/perception. All of us writing what we feel strongly about.
I wish you both well.

[Jfever]

Here in is my point on the matter; first, I expected such a response from Azcrow. Second and more important; If one fairly educated adult in this day and age, whom is currently not an adult that was indoctrinated as a young impressionable child, and was also educated to a standard degree in reading, math, and science, we're exposed to the evidence and claims made by both sides of this argument- were to have issue; I'd be shocked. I've provided several resources above in a previous post. if you are on the fence, or otherwise looking to logically confirm your belief in the face of modern day knowledge (rather than 2-4 thousand year old text from unknown authorship with less than 1st century understanding of physics, biology, astronomy, and chemistry , based on stories passed on by word of mouth for a few generations, then translated from Hebrew to Greek, then to old English and others), there are countless sources of reliable information accessable with the very technology you use to check you fantasy football scores, news, and such. If you really want answers, you can find them. First, however, you have to remove the blinders and ear plugs. And, secondly and most important of all, you half to be curious enough and motivated enough to look, watch, listen, question, be skeptical, and take the time to figure it out on your own. Better to do that I think than to blindly accept something spoon fed by an authority figure.