Presidential Election Fear

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Which presidential candidate do you fear as being More Likely to Destroy the World?

Poll ended at Tue Nov 08, 2016 12:14 pm

Hillary "You Got Mail" Clinton
8
80%
"The Donald" Trump
2
20%
 
Total votes: 10

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Re: Presidential Election Fear

Postby GLSmk » Tue Feb 14, 2017 3:44 pm

lukkynumber13 wrote:
Tue Feb 14, 2017 12:21 pm
JFever wrote:
Tue Feb 14, 2017 9:04 am
This ^ is one of my major issues. Too much bi-partisanship. While we "thank some pretend God that Hillary didn't win, are we going to now PRAY to that same pretend deity that Trump doesn't screw things up so much that it sets us back decades?

The ultra conservative Right, the ultra liberal left... both are wrong. We as a people need to get better at empathy, at putting ourselves in others situations, at compromise, at communication.
As a Christian, I definitely don't agree with some of that first paragraph but the second paragraph? Right on my brother!
:thumbup: Agreed.

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Re: Presidential Election Fear

Postby joekool » Wed Feb 15, 2017 11:08 am

I remember something along the lines of separation of Church and State...;)

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Re: Presidential Election Fear

Postby lukkynumber13 » Wed Feb 15, 2017 11:11 am

joekool wrote:
Wed Feb 15, 2017 11:08 am
I remember something along the lines of separation of Church and State...;)
Separation of church & state has no bearing on me not agreeing that God is fake or pretend
T1
LUCK, Flacco, J Allen
MIXON, Ajayi, Collins, A. Jones, Chase E, R Smith, Blue
KA/EVANS/DIGGS/HILTON/THIELEN, Sammy, C Davis, A Miller, KB, Tre'Quan
GRONK, Vance, Watson, Shaheen
-
DL: FLOWERS/HUGHES/ADDISON, Golden, Short, Okafor, Sheard, Malik J, Horton
LB: KENDRICKS/WILLIAMSON/ZACH C, Schobert, R. Evans, Warner, Littleton, Young, Milano, DJ, Bynes, Kyzir
DB: ADDAE/AMOS/SIMMONS, John J, Kazee, Maye

T2
JIMMY G, Rivers, Eli
GURLEY/DJ/MIXON, Guice, Ajayi, A Jones, Chase E, C-Mike, Darkwa
NUK/AJG/HILL/KA, Sammy, Shepard, Garcon, Hogan, J-Wash, J'Mon, JMatt
ENGRAM, Doyle, Higbee, Vance, Everett, Hollister
-
DL: GRIFFEN/BUCKNER/HEYWARD, Barnett, Golden, Short, Wilkerson, Horton, Wolfe, Ogbah, Spence
LB: KENDRICKS/BURFICT/DANNY T/HITCHENS/KJW, Leonard, Warner, Ford, Ebukam, Walker, K Young, Goodson, Bentley
DB: TAVON/POYER/JOHN J, Geathers, Diggs, Kazee, McLeod, Maye, Farley

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Re: Presidential Election Fear

Postby joekool » Wed Feb 15, 2017 12:26 pm

Very true and if you believe he/she/they/it is real, that is fine. But it has no bearing on what a President or Congress etc should do in terms of policies and laws and for the people etc.

I am orthodox agnostic personally.

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Re: Presidential Election Fear

Postby lukkynumber13 » Wed Feb 15, 2017 12:31 pm

joekool wrote:
Wed Feb 15, 2017 12:26 pm
Very true and if you believe he/she/they/it is real, that is fine. But it has no bearing on what a President or Congress etc should do in terms of policies and laws and for the people etc.
In terms of not being a theocracy, sure.

But where do moral laws come from, if not from one standard moral baseline?
T1
LUCK, Flacco, J Allen
MIXON, Ajayi, Collins, A. Jones, Chase E, R Smith, Blue
KA/EVANS/DIGGS/HILTON/THIELEN, Sammy, C Davis, A Miller, KB, Tre'Quan
GRONK, Vance, Watson, Shaheen
-
DL: FLOWERS/HUGHES/ADDISON, Golden, Short, Okafor, Sheard, Malik J, Horton
LB: KENDRICKS/WILLIAMSON/ZACH C, Schobert, R. Evans, Warner, Littleton, Young, Milano, DJ, Bynes, Kyzir
DB: ADDAE/AMOS/SIMMONS, John J, Kazee, Maye

T2
JIMMY G, Rivers, Eli
GURLEY/DJ/MIXON, Guice, Ajayi, A Jones, Chase E, C-Mike, Darkwa
NUK/AJG/HILL/KA, Sammy, Shepard, Garcon, Hogan, J-Wash, J'Mon, JMatt
ENGRAM, Doyle, Higbee, Vance, Everett, Hollister
-
DL: GRIFFEN/BUCKNER/HEYWARD, Barnett, Golden, Short, Wilkerson, Horton, Wolfe, Ogbah, Spence
LB: KENDRICKS/BURFICT/DANNY T/HITCHENS/KJW, Leonard, Warner, Ford, Ebukam, Walker, K Young, Goodson, Bentley
DB: TAVON/POYER/JOHN J, Geathers, Diggs, Kazee, McLeod, Maye, Farley

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Re: Presidential Election Fear

Postby joekool » Wed Feb 15, 2017 1:56 pm

Well, that is a pretty open-ended, much-debated answer...if its theism or atheism. And someone who is devout in their religious beliefs will not ever be persuaded by someone who believes and follows a different set of rules, even if the basic premise (dont steal, murder, rape and so on) are in alignment.

Centrally, classical theism is universalist. In a universalist moral scheme, if two people have different opinions about the morality of an action, both cannot be right — there’s only one right answer. Similarly, if two cultures have different standards for morality, both cannot be correct (in fact, maybe both are incorrect!). This is just as if two people calculate the gravitational force between two objects differently: only one person can be correct, because there is only one answer.

The theist view is often critiqued for being irreconcilable with science. In return, backers of classical theism will attempt to reconcile it with science, often successfully. Man has discovered scientifically observable, testable and replicable explanations for many physical phenomena, ranging from gravity to genetics. In the case of gravity, our knowledge has progressed from an abstract sense of a force causing things to drop, to a simple mathematical formula given by Newton, to a better understanding of quantum and relativistic effects of gravity.

But moral laws cannot be tested in this sense. In the classical theist paradigm, moral laws result solely from the reading of one holy text such as the Old Testament and the Quran. However, universalism decrees that, when they conflict on morality, they can’t all be right! In classical theism, most people rely on the text that they have been taught from birth, but why should one accept blindly that the text that they are born with is correct and the others are wrong? Blind acceptance does not do anything to help humankind. Had Copernicus merely accepted that the universe rotated around the Earth, had the founding fathers accepted the political state of affairs in Colonial America, the physical and mental condition of mankind would be far worse. Moreover, the concept that one believes something just because their parents believe something is to me repulsive: one of the fundamental and good principles of our society is that one should be able to set a totally divergent course from his or her parents if he or she chooses, in order to lead a better life. Any religion that teaches blind acceptance of a tradition just because of parental belief is at loggerheads with this principle.

This is certainly not to say that the Old Testament or the Quran are without moral worth. The teachings of the prophets and their moral principles are certainly worth understanding and, perhaps, if observations of the world indicate that they lead to good ends, worth following. However, it would be necessary to understand why they lead to good ends, rather than simply to blindly accept them.

Of course, not all forms of theism teach blind acceptance, hence the careful use of the term “classical theism.”

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Re: Presidential Election Fear

Postby joekool » Sat Feb 18, 2017 3:53 pm

didnt mean to kill the convo

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Re: Presidential Election Fear

Postby lukkynumber13 » Sat Feb 18, 2017 4:12 pm

joekool wrote:
Sat Feb 18, 2017 3:53 pm
didnt mean to kill the convo
Haha all good! I will say one thing, in response to morality not being backed by science. While that is true in a sense, I would argue that many moral laws are scientifically proven to be the "best" way to live.

Sexual promiscuity is certainly not healthy for one's body

Things like hatred & bitterness are certainly unhealthy for one's self, in terms of ulcers and other side effects.

Inflicting harm or pain on others is absolutely damaging to one's own mind.

Overuse of alcohol is harmful.

I'm totally just writing off the top of my head. Idk. Floating thoughts out there
T1
LUCK, Flacco, J Allen
MIXON, Ajayi, Collins, A. Jones, Chase E, R Smith, Blue
KA/EVANS/DIGGS/HILTON/THIELEN, Sammy, C Davis, A Miller, KB, Tre'Quan
GRONK, Vance, Watson, Shaheen
-
DL: FLOWERS/HUGHES/ADDISON, Golden, Short, Okafor, Sheard, Malik J, Horton
LB: KENDRICKS/WILLIAMSON/ZACH C, Schobert, R. Evans, Warner, Littleton, Young, Milano, DJ, Bynes, Kyzir
DB: ADDAE/AMOS/SIMMONS, John J, Kazee, Maye

T2
JIMMY G, Rivers, Eli
GURLEY/DJ/MIXON, Guice, Ajayi, A Jones, Chase E, C-Mike, Darkwa
NUK/AJG/HILL/KA, Sammy, Shepard, Garcon, Hogan, J-Wash, J'Mon, JMatt
ENGRAM, Doyle, Higbee, Vance, Everett, Hollister
-
DL: GRIFFEN/BUCKNER/HEYWARD, Barnett, Golden, Short, Wilkerson, Horton, Wolfe, Ogbah, Spence
LB: KENDRICKS/BURFICT/DANNY T/HITCHENS/KJW, Leonard, Warner, Ford, Ebukam, Walker, K Young, Goodson, Bentley
DB: TAVON/POYER/JOHN J, Geathers, Diggs, Kazee, McLeod, Maye, Farley

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Re: Presidential Election Fear

Postby JFever » Mon Apr 03, 2017 3:45 pm

joekool wrote:
Wed Feb 15, 2017 11:08 am
I remember something along the lines of separation of Church and State...;)

To see our current government awarding tax except status to all that call themselves a church or call their belief system a religion, is one thing, (which I don't agree with anyway), but now, to allow these institutions and their people to freely make donations to political parties and to back them up / to lobby for their own cult beliefs is an issue. A big issue. This is NOT separation of church and state, and frankly it is just one of many things going wrong with our current system and our current government, president, and staff. For our current president to push for this is quite telling of the direction our nation is in.

The conversation above that discusses morality and its source, is an interesting one. It is answerable and understandable however. I'll simply interject here that morality, and specifically - it's original source; has NOTHING to do with any religion. Religion, all religions & every single religion, has historically, and does currently piggy back off of the things they like or that are widely considered as good things by the public, they simply cherry pick (things they agree with or think of as virtuous) as good or beneficial aspects of morality. It is just cherry picking folks. The Bible, the Koran, and basically all "holy" scriptures, have some good in them. Joseph Smith basically plagiarized the Bible and called it the book of Mormon as he "invented" his own religion..... even his book had / has some good work in it. But, the mormon religion certainly isn't MORAL.... is it? They however do have much that is, or would be viewed (in modern 21st century times) as being outdated and primitive as it pertains to "morality". (Think Gay and Lesbian rights, think Woman's rights, think Racial equality.....)

So.... NO, sorry, your religious beliefs really don't have some kind of control on societies "morals". If ALL morality were derived from the Abrahamic religion of Christianity, the Jewish religion, or even the Muslim secs, Slavery would have been gone much earlier & sexual equality would doing much better than it is today. Morals and the origin of morality for that matter - It is a product of society and is something that is ever changing. Most religions are based on centuries old value systems. Most are sexist and deprive women the right to be represented in church councils.

So.... for those of you that are Muslim, baptist, Buddhist, christian, Methodist, Lutheran, Jewish, or for those of you that are Wickin, or believe in Thor, Rah, or Posidin or any other religion, Just so you all know.... Morality is not derived from any single book, any single god or group of gods. It is a product of society.

Drops the mike
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Re: Presidential Election Fear

Postby lukkynumber13 » Mon Apr 03, 2017 4:00 pm

JFever wrote:
Mon Apr 03, 2017 3:45 pm
joekool wrote:
Wed Feb 15, 2017 11:08 am
I remember something along the lines of separation of Church and State...;)
To see our current government awarding tax except status to all that call themselves a church or call their belief system a religion, is one thing, (which I don't agree with anyway), but now, to allow these institutions and their people to freely make donations to political parties and to back them up / to lobby for their own cult beliefs is an issue. A big issue. This is NOT separation of church and state, and frankly it is just one of many things going wrong with our current system and our current government, president, and staff. For our current president to push for this is quite telling of the direction our nation is in.

The conversation above that discusses morality and its source, is an interesting one. It is answerable and understandable however. I'll simply interject here that morality, and specifically - it's original source; has NOTHING to do with any religion. Religion, all religions & every single religion, has historically, and does currently piggy back off of the things they like or that are widely considered as good things by the public, they simply cherry pick (things they agree with or think of as virtuous) as good or beneficial aspects of morality. It is just cherry picking folks. The Bible, the Koran, and basically all "holy" scriptures, have some good in them. Joseph Smith basically plagiarized the Bible and called it the book of Mormon as he "invented" his own religion..... even his book had / has some good work in it. But, the mormon religion certainly isn't MORAL.... is it? They however do have much that is, or would be viewed (in modern 21st century times) as being outdated and primitive as it pertains to "morality". (Think Gay and Lesbian rights, think Woman's rights, think Racial equality.....)

So.... NO, sorry, your religious beliefs really don't have some kind of control on societies "morals". If ALL morality were derived from the Abrahamic religion of Christianity, the Jewish religion, or even the Muslim secs, Slavery would have been gone much earlier & sexual equality would doing much better than it is today. Morals and the origin of morality for that matter - It is a product of society and is something that is ever changing. Most religions are based on centuries old value systems. Most are sexist and deprive women the right to be represented in church councils.

So.... for those of you that are Muslim, baptist, Buddhist, christian, Methodist, Lutheran, Jewish, or for those of you that are Wickin, or believe in Thor, Rah, or Posidin or any other religion, Just so you all know.... Morality is not derived from any single book, any single god or group of gods. It is a product of society.

Drops the mike
Unless you are a bible-believing Christian, in which case you believe that pretty much all moral beliefs and religions that incorporate what we view as "moral behavior" have come about AFTER the Abrahamic covenant. Religions such as Islam, Catholicism, and (as you pointed out) Mormonism have all copied great bits of Judaeo-Christian theology & traditions.
T1
LUCK, Flacco, J Allen
MIXON, Ajayi, Collins, A. Jones, Chase E, R Smith, Blue
KA/EVANS/DIGGS/HILTON/THIELEN, Sammy, C Davis, A Miller, KB, Tre'Quan
GRONK, Vance, Watson, Shaheen
-
DL: FLOWERS/HUGHES/ADDISON, Golden, Short, Okafor, Sheard, Malik J, Horton
LB: KENDRICKS/WILLIAMSON/ZACH C, Schobert, R. Evans, Warner, Littleton, Young, Milano, DJ, Bynes, Kyzir
DB: ADDAE/AMOS/SIMMONS, John J, Kazee, Maye

T2
JIMMY G, Rivers, Eli
GURLEY/DJ/MIXON, Guice, Ajayi, A Jones, Chase E, C-Mike, Darkwa
NUK/AJG/HILL/KA, Sammy, Shepard, Garcon, Hogan, J-Wash, J'Mon, JMatt
ENGRAM, Doyle, Higbee, Vance, Everett, Hollister
-
DL: GRIFFEN/BUCKNER/HEYWARD, Barnett, Golden, Short, Wilkerson, Horton, Wolfe, Ogbah, Spence
LB: KENDRICKS/BURFICT/DANNY T/HITCHENS/KJW, Leonard, Warner, Ford, Ebukam, Walker, K Young, Goodson, Bentley
DB: TAVON/POYER/JOHN J, Geathers, Diggs, Kazee, McLeod, Maye, Farley

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Re: Presidential Election Fear

Postby GLSmk » Mon Apr 03, 2017 5:14 pm

lukkynumber13 wrote:
Mon Apr 03, 2017 4:00 pm
JFever wrote:
Mon Apr 03, 2017 3:45 pm
joekool wrote:
Wed Feb 15, 2017 11:08 am
I remember something along the lines of separation of Church and State...;)
To see our current government awarding tax except status to all that call themselves a church or call their belief system a religion, is one thing, (which I don't agree with anyway), but now, to allow these institutions and their people to freely make donations to political parties and to back them up / to lobby for their own cult beliefs is an issue. A big issue. This is NOT separation of church and state, and frankly it is just one of many things going wrong with our current system and our current government, president, and staff. For our current president to push for this is quite telling of the direction our nation is in.

The conversation above that discusses morality and its source, is an interesting one. It is answerable and understandable however. I'll simply interject here that morality, and specifically - it's original source; has NOTHING to do with any religion. Religion, all religions & every single religion, has historically, and does currently piggy back off of the things they like or that are widely considered as good things by the public, they simply cherry pick (things they agree with or think of as virtuous) as good or beneficial aspects of morality. It is just cherry picking folks. The Bible, the Koran, and basically all "holy" scriptures, have some good in them. Joseph Smith basically plagiarized the Bible and called it the book of Mormon as he "invented" his own religion..... even his book had / has some good work in it. But, the mormon religion certainly isn't MORAL.... is it? They however do have much that is, or would be viewed (in modern 21st century times) as being outdated and primitive as it pertains to "morality". (Think Gay and Lesbian rights, think Woman's rights, think Racial equality.....)

So.... NO, sorry, your religious beliefs really don't have some kind of control on societies "morals". If ALL morality were derived from the Abrahamic religion of Christianity, the Jewish religion, or even the Muslim secs, Slavery would have been gone much earlier & sexual equality would doing much better than it is today. Morals and the origin of morality for that matter - It is a product of society and is something that is ever changing. Most religions are based on centuries old value systems. Most are sexist and deprive women the right to be represented in church councils.

So.... for those of you that are Muslim, baptist, Buddhist, christian, Methodist, Lutheran, Jewish, or for those of you that are Wickin, or believe in Thor, Rah, or Posidin or any other religion, Just so you all know.... Morality is not derived from any single book, any single god or group of gods. It is a product of society.

Drops the mike
Unless you are a bible-believing Christian, in which case you believe that pretty much all moral beliefs and religions that incorporate what we view as "moral behavior" have come about AFTER the Abrahamic covenant. Religions such as Islam, Catholicism, and (as you pointed out) Mormonism have all copied great bits of Judaeo-Christian theology & traditions.
Easy Lukky, JFever doesn't like facts. Also, Mr. Educator, it's 'mic' not 'mike'

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Henry Brate Cook Schultz
Beasley Quinn Heyward Allen Anderson Ogbah
Miller Perryman Watt Z.Brown Clowney Landry Dupree
Bell Cyprien Reid Everett Cravens Farley


Cousins Mayfield Jackson Barrett Webb
Cook Michel Freeman Kerryon Mack Bo Wadley Conner Blount
Gordon Davis Juju Crowder A.Miller Gallup Callaway Hurns T. Smith Cain Chark Taylor Quinn
Howard Kittle Gesicki Andrews Schultz
Beasley Williams Addison Brockers McKinley Davenport
Hightower Williamson Schobert Kwiatkowsi Burks Jewell Griffin
Jefferson McCourty Heath Derwin Woods Nicholson

Brady Bortles Mayfield
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Nuk KA Watkins Williams Crowder Miller Gallup Cain Meredith Boyd
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Re: Presidential Election Fear

Postby JFever » Tue Apr 04, 2017 6:14 am

GLSMK, Sorry, typed my message on the phone. Cool to correct one's spelling though. I guess if that is what floats your boat or helps ya to sleep at night. Frankly, to be honest, some of the most hypocritical and immoral people I've ever met spend time judging each other and congregating on Sundays. Strange coincidence don't ya think.

Also, to insinuate that I don't like "Facts" - is nothing but a side step / miss direction attempt by you, and a response to what I quite clearly laid out for you as an explanation to the origin of Morality. Maybe try reading it again. My response was rooted deeply in fact. Look it up before you spew out jabs. Notice, I didn't jab at you for being a christian or whatever you believe. Don't take personal offense when someone questions your belief, or at least try not to. Questioning things, being a skeptic, and insisting on logic and reason as the basis for belief is a good thing, and a quality more people should try to adopt or incorporate. It is a better approach than mindlessly following like cattle to whatever religion your parents happened to be brought up with.

Anyway.... Morality is the subject being discussed and it is explainable and understandable, like I mentioned above. * It is a product of evolving societal norms, paradigms and public values, nothing more, nothing less. It just is what it is and it isn't from any single religious document. It just isn't. Surely if you are an adult today in the United States, you can reflect back to just a few decades ago. Our social norms were slightly different if you recall. Some examples to remind you or stir your thoughts; Just a decade ago, gay marriage was on the outside looking in. The term "GAY" was commonly used as a slam or a derogatory put down. Conservatives tried to push "THEIR" values on others and pushed their homophobic belief on others and cited the BIBLE as their source.... Wow. Anyway back to the legalization and acceptance of gay marriage; People were pushing for it to be accepted and we had strong views on both sides, yet, no gay marriage in the US as politicians were too scared to do the real morally "right" thing, they didn't want to jeopardize their careers and go out on a limb to upset their constituents. Then, a crack in the dam, a state here, a state there, then.... well, today, gay marriage is nearly widely accepted as legal by all states. Obama's first term he was semi against it and it wasn't widely discussed politically, then, during his 2nd term, BAM, new and spreading social norms began to turn the tide. Am I to believe that this change in social acceptance and social norms is somehow derived from some religious originating moral code? Give me a flipping break...... But, along those lines - We could do the same for voting rights for minorities and or woman, and woman's rights. We could do the same for slavery, and I can assure you that nether of the improvements to our moral belief pertaining to minority or woman's equality are coming from ANY religion. Also, from 1854-1906 here in my state of Minnesota over 40 native Americans were hung by the state. A very disproportionate # if you look into it and compare other ethnic groups at the time. And.... at that time The MORALS of the land were heavily steeped in either evangelical Lutheran or Roman catholic religions. What a strange coincidence.... Frankly, main stream religions were part of the method of keeping these groups in check. At the root of most main stream religion is the power of the white man / or for all intents and purposes - the group that wants to retain a position of power. Look into it. In the church I was brought up in (Evangelical Lutheran) to this very day in 2017, it is written in their bylaws - that no woman can be a member on the church council. How the heck is that "MORAL"? So, one could say that religion (christian, Jew, Muslim) in many facets is quite immoral on these subject matters. Ok. So, now, if I could take you back in time, if we can now focus on the origins of theism we can come to a very logical answer. What are we then to conclude about "morals" prior to say the 1st century AD. What about before? All evidence states that modern day Homo Sapiens has been around as far back as +/- 100,000 years ago. Do we think that those people (and yes, they were people and members of the same species as you and I) had NO morals, or do you think it is accurate that maybe they had different morals. Morals suited for their time and place. Like ours today. Both - not at all dependent or rooted in any type of theism what so ever. Again, theism has cherry picked bits and pieces from random "holy" books and claimed some type of moral high ground. Are we then to believe that prior to the writings of any of these books, that, not one person had ANY moral value?

I'm sure most adults do understand that there actually was a time (A GREAT vast amount of time) that man existed before even the written word, before agriculture, before cities, before religion itself. Religion is a by product of our pattern seeking, purpose wanting minds. To make more of it than that is simply an idealistic and quite selfish approach or a shortcut too attempt to explain and understand what is witness-able and observable in our lives.
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Re: Presidential Election Fear

Postby GLSmk » Tue Apr 04, 2017 7:35 am

First off, you really need to think before you use the word "all" when stating 'evidence' proves something. The word "all" indicates that 100% of research and it's findings points towards that end result. I can't think of many things that are 100% proven by science (which has proven itself to be wrong time and time again on several accounts.)

Next, I didn't take it personal at all. I've just noticed you have a habit of throwing around "facts" that are yet to be proven (especially when it comes to our president.) It seems like you believe by going on a long rant, you're simply thinking you're smarter than you really are.

And who really gets to decide what's moral and immoral? You say being against same-sex marriage is immoral (I personally don't care)
I say a gay couple being able to sue a bakery because they won't make a cake for their wedding is immoral.

Being a libertarian, I believe people should have a right to do as they choose (obviously excluding murder and such) why do restaurants reserve the right to refuse service, but a local bakery can't? That isn't moral. That circles back around to being hypocritical. Christians can't shove the bible down our throat, but we can shove our beliefs down theirs.

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JFever
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Re: Presidential Election Fear

Postby JFever » Tue Apr 04, 2017 8:04 am

GLSmk wrote:
Tue Apr 04, 2017 7:35 am
First off, you really need to think before you use the word "all" when stating 'evidence' proves something. The word "all" indicates that 100% of research and it's findings points towards that end result. I can't think of many things that are 100% proven by science (which has proven itself to be wrong time and time again on several accounts.)

Next, I didn't take it personal at all. I've just noticed you have a habit of throwing around "facts" that are yet to be proven (especially when it comes to our president.) It seems like you believe by going on a long rant, you're simply thinking you're smarter than you really are.

And who really gets to decide what's moral and immoral? You say being against same-sex marriage is immoral (I personally don't care)
I say a gay couple being able to sue a bakery because they won't make a cake for their wedding is immoral.

Being a libertarian, I believe people should have a right to do as they choose (obviously excluding murder and such) why do restaurants reserve the right to refuse service, but a local bakery can't? That isn't moral. That circles back around to being hypocritical. Christians can't shove the bible down our throat, but we can shove our beliefs down theirs.

I agree with you on some of these accounts. But, first, lets iron out the bolded. Our President didn't win the popular vote, our president currently has a sub 35% approval rating... I could go on, but, I do digress, to each their own. I don't like him, i didn't like him before, and, he has done nothing but force me to dislike him more as the days go on. You can like him all you want but.... then be prepared to at least defend his political moves and of course live with the ramifications of them. And, to the more important point; The Scientific method in and of itself is the single best way that we (humans) push forward in technology, it is the way that we know things. We all started learning via the scientific method before we could talk. Science is the way, the method, the systematic approach that we TRY to prove ourselves wrong. WE do this so we can make advancements. It is the goal!!!!!

The business thing you mentioned with the bakery.... well, I don't agree with it personally. And if an owner wants to do that to their business, well, then they can choose to do that and lose business. I don't agree with the law suite thing, but, I don't agree with much of that sue - happy crap anyway. And to conclude, I don't care personally what people believe if they keep it to themselves and if it doesn't contradict modern scientific knowledge, but, if religions are going to try to get their messages injected into public education, into the science classroom, and to indoctrinate innocent children at increasingly younger ages, I will speak out on it. It is akin to a global virus that can only be cured via education and reflection. Morality is simply not from religion. It didn't originate from any specific religion. Morality came first, morality is ever changing, and .... it isn't an end result that came from any scripture.

And just to mention, there are currency around 31,000 recognized religions in the world. Surely, some philosophical deduction and use of reason can be used here to determine than clearly, all of them cannot be simultaneously correct as most flat out contradict each other. :thumbup:
Truth is found through Evidence.

Science is the poetry of reality.

* Reality (as defined by Webster's dictionary) - A word for things as they actually exist, as opposed to an idealistic or notional ideal of them.

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Re: Presidential Election Fear

Postby GLSmk » Tue Apr 04, 2017 9:44 am

JFever wrote:
Tue Apr 04, 2017 8:04 am
GLSmk wrote:
Tue Apr 04, 2017 7:35 am
First off, you really need to think before you use the word "all" when stating 'evidence' proves something. The word "all" indicates that 100% of research and it's findings points towards that end result. I can't think of many things that are 100% proven by science (which has proven itself to be wrong time and time again on several accounts.)

Next, I didn't take it personal at all. I've just noticed you have a habit of throwing around "facts" that are yet to be proven (especially when it comes to our president.) It seems like you believe by going on a long rant, you're simply thinking you're smarter than you really are.

And who really gets to decide what's moral and immoral? You say being against same-sex marriage is immoral (I personally don't care)
I say a gay couple being able to sue a bakery because they won't make a cake for their wedding is immoral.

Being a libertarian, I believe people should have a right to do as they choose (obviously excluding murder and such) why do restaurants reserve the right to refuse service, but a local bakery can't? That isn't moral. That circles back around to being hypocritical. Christians can't shove the bible down our throat, but we can shove our beliefs down theirs.

I agree with you on some of these accounts. But, first, lets iron out the bolded. Our President didn't win the popular vote, our president currently has a sub 35% approval rating... I could go on, but, I do digress, to each their own. I don't like him, i didn't like him before, and, he has done nothing but force me to dislike him more as the days go on. You can like him all you want but.... then be prepared to at least defend his political moves and of course live with the ramifications of them. And, to the more important point; The Scientific method in and of itself is the single best way that we (humans) push forward in technology, it is the way that we know things. We all started learning via the scientific method before we could talk. Science is the way, the method, the systematic approach that we TRY to prove ourselves wrong. WE do this so we can make advancements. It is the goal!!!!!

The business thing you mentioned with the bakery.... well, I don't agree with it personally. And if an owner wants to do that to their business, well, then they can choose to do that and lose business. I don't agree with the law suite thing, but, I don't agree with much of that sue - happy crap anyway. And to conclude, I don't care personally what people believe if they keep it to themselves and if it doesn't contradict modern scientific knowledge, but, if religions are going to try to get their messages injected into public education, into the science classroom, and to indoctrinate innocent children at increasingly younger ages, I will speak out on it. It is akin to a global virus that can only be cured via education and reflection. Morality is simply not from religion. It didn't originate from any specific religion. Morality came first, morality is ever changing, and .... it isn't an end result that came from any scripture.

And just to mention, there are currency around 31,000 recognized religions in the world. Surely, some philosophical deduction and use of reason can be used here to determine than clearly, all of them cannot be simultaneously correct as most flat out contradict each other. :thumbup:
All good points. Just for the record, I didn't vote for trump either. I think both main options we were given were utter trash. Only thing I want to point out about what I bolded is that most religions are actually regurgitation of each other more than contradiction. The books they each preach from are similar, they each just choose different sections to use as their primary guidelines, I guess would be the best way to word it. That's from the few I've actually read at least. I was given a quran when I was in Iraq from my interpreter and it is probably 85-90% the same as the bible

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Miller Perryman Watt Z.Brown Clowney Landry Dupree
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Cousins Mayfield Jackson Barrett Webb
Cook Michel Freeman Kerryon Mack Bo Wadley Conner Blount
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Howard Kittle Gesicki Andrews Schultz
Beasley Williams Addison Brockers McKinley Davenport
Hightower Williamson Schobert Kwiatkowsi Burks Jewell Griffin
Jefferson McCourty Heath Derwin Woods Nicholson

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Nuk KA Watkins Williams Crowder Miller Gallup Cain Meredith Boyd
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