Presidential Election Fear

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Which presidential candidate do you fear as being More Likely to Destroy the World?

Poll ended at Tue Nov 08, 2016 12:14 pm

Hillary "You Got Mail" Clinton
8
80%
"The Donald" Trump
2
20%
 
Total votes: 10

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Re: Presidential Election Fear

Postby clarion contrarion » Tue Apr 04, 2017 7:18 pm

people get really confused about the fact that religion is a business as is science these days and both are for sale if the price is right .
Previous unequivocal moral truths are seen now as character flaws or bigotry by many and past universal scientific fact from the great immutable god that is science past have been refuted . Much more will change and those claiming religious superiority or all knowing scientific fact are to be scoffed at with vigor.
Jfever's myriad of information is often lost in its haughty delivery others that he could reach pull the plug because of the messenger rather than the message is what I see. He also is used to lecturing high school kids that do not care what he says or lack the ability or desire to challenge his sweeping proclamations of knowledge and intellectual superiority.
People claiming moral high ground and saying their is no god are completely lost as morals are a social contract rather than some concrete rule as jfever contends they can change and evolve then if the vikings thought rape and murder were moral , were they ? . If in fact there is no god and no eternal soul then we are beasts with Iphones and then at that point there is no moral right or wrong and claiming that rape or murder is wrong is idiotic. Is a lion or a shark a murderer or just hungry / Rape or murder are wrong without a god only because of the consequences or perception of your fellow beings they are not morally right or wrong as an act .They are taught as wrong to prevent chaos & societal decay .The same rulers that tell you murder is wrong send soldiers to kill others under the guise of freedom and protection when in reality it is about profits . The same citizens allow them or elect them to do so in some regions. Murderers and rapists are detestable but they are not right or wrong , the consequences of actions are judged to be wrong by a majority of society or by a few with a powerful agenda and marketing campaign. It is all in the eyes of the perceiver , example ball park franks kills far more animals than michael vick but the perception is widely varied , the outcome, one gets 100 million $ suspension the other people love . But a dead dog is the same as a dead beef whether it is for dinner or because I am in a bad mood. Would mike vick be thought of as such a bad guy if he ate the dogs?
The main thing with the sweeping equality movement is that doesn't seek equality it seeks superiority those that scream for tolerance are generally the least tolerant people you will cross paths with or have a discussion. As ridiculous as a vegan wearing leather pants or or leather tennis shoes ... hey dummy where did that leather come from and why is it OK to use the outside of the cow but not the inside?
Or as ridiculous as that green planet jackboot climate change pimp al gore lecturing us of the need for our austerity but building a 32,000 sq ft home. Typical of the socialist goons that have all the answers about the sacrifices everyone else needs to make. Like the idiots at the indy zoo telling people to unplug their cellphone chargers to save energy while having the central air on 68 on a 95 degree july day a few years back. How much power would they save at 74 or off ... or close on days that are too hot>
We evolved from apes correct why are there still apes and when will those apes evolve and what shall they evolve into ? Does the god of apes hate them or are they just a bit slow and need some extra help ? Why haven't any other creatures evolved in something resembling a human level of achievement ? Why haven't say a pig evolved into a martian or a dolphin evolved into a klingon?
People flipped out when harambe got blasted .... why it was a damned gorilla ?
was it just a moral being saving a kids life ?
or was it an immoral being blasting another defenseless creature ?
Why is an educator of our youth worried that our president wasn't elected by popular vote ? we use a different method to elect the president .Popular vote is like the time of possession of politics .... important but not critical. Is today's education both primary & higher education really education or is it indoctrination into a new world religion of liberal socialism to foment a new morality that has abjectly failed across the globe?
Stupid people in droves are saying bad stuff about the president's immigration policies but perhaps they should make that drive from the ivory tower of idyllic huggy feely unicorn rainbowland to north dakota to see if they can find a reservation and ask some native americans if they wished their forefathers perhaps needed a bit less lax policy?
damn there is so much more but I have puked on the thread enough for now.
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Re: Presidential Election Fear

Postby JFever » Wed Apr 05, 2017 9:39 am

people get really confused about the fact that religion is a business as is science these days and both are for sale if the price is right .

Science is a way of thinking, a collection of accrued facts, problem solving, and simply a method of attaining measurable truths. Don't put a business model on it to confuse people. There is a technology aspect that stems from science and that has a business tinge to it. But, other than that, your statement is nothing but misleading and misinformed. Religion on the other hand, is quite business like; in it's origins, in its procreation or spreading, in that it requests donations and active participation from all indoctrinated members and shames those that don't keep up their end of the bargain.

Previous unequivocal moral truths are seen now as character flaws or bigotry by many and past universal scientific fact from the great immutable god that is science past have been refuted . Much more will change and those claiming religious superiority or all knowing scientific fact are to be scoffed at with vigor.

It seems those that make statements like this are subtly missing the point of the scientific method and precisely how progress is made. It isn't complicated. Invent a better mouse trap. You will use the scientific method in this quest, you will render the previous "best" mouse trap less "best". This is the point of the method. This is how antibiotics are developed in the arms race of pathology and immunology / health care. We learn from our previous best. Tt isn't bigotry, and it has nothing to do with any god what so ever. Much will change with science and our progress as time goes on. History tells us this. And, we need to continue to question, be skeptical, and push forward in order to continue to better our understanding of the world and ourselves. Science demonstrates the falsifiable aspect that contributes to its consistent sharpening edge. If we can prove something wrong (as you can never prove something right btw), you can eliminate some cause / effects, you can narrow down your understanding and make advances. Religion on the other hand has been virtually unchanged over its existence. It is the same message today as it was a thousand years ago. Now, compare our technological advances over that exact time span. This should explain this quite well.

Jfever's myriad of information is often lost in its haughty delivery others that he could reach pull the plug because of the messenger rather than the message is what I see. He also is used to lecturing high school kids that do not care what he says or lack the ability or desire to challenge his sweeping proclamations of knowledge and intellectual superiority.


No intellectual superiority intended. I make attempts personally to learn something new daily. I push myself daily on new subject matter. I read daily and expand my horizons academically. I teach a college biology course now because of my ongoing education. It simply appears to me that many in our general public lack the basics in understanding that can be learned through studying fundamental biology concepts. My apologies to those that pull the plug based off of me sharing some insight. I never proclaim to be intellectually superior nor do I make sweeping proclamations of knowledge. There is much I personally don't know. But, at the same time, when reading these threads, it appears that there is much that I could share in order to help to clarify some vastly accepted misconceptions. I'm simply sharing what I know based off of a life time of dedication to my craft. I take it quite serious each and every day, all day, and have for nearly 3 decades.

People claiming moral high ground and saying their is no god are completely lost as morals are a social contract rather than some concrete rule as jfever contends they can change and evolve then if the vikings thought rape and murder were moral , were they ? . If in fact there is no god and no eternal soul then we are beasts with Iphones and then at that point there is no moral right or wrong and claiming that rape or murder is wrong is idiotic. Is a lion or a shark a murderer or just hungry / Rape or murder are wrong without a god only because of the consequences or perception of your fellow beings they are not morally right or wrong as an act .They are taught as wrong to prevent chaos & societal decay .The same rulers that tell you murder is wrong send soldiers to kill others under the guise of freedom and protection when in reality it is about profits . The same citizens allow them or elect them to do so in some regions. Murderers and rapists are detestable but they are not right or wrong , the consequences of actions are judged to be wrong by a majority of society or by a few with a powerful agenda and marketing campaign. It is all in the eyes of the perceiver , example ball park franks kills far more animals than michael vick but the perception is widely varied , the outcome, one gets 100 million $ suspension the other people love . But a dead dog is the same as a dead beef whether it is for dinner or because I am in a bad mood. Would mike vick be thought of as such a bad guy if he ate the dogs?
The main thing with the sweeping equality movement is that doesn't seek equality it seeks superiority those that scream for tolerance are generally the least tolerant people you will cross paths with or have a discussion. As ridiculous as a vegan wearing leather pants or or leather tennis shoes ... hey dummy where did that leather come from and why is it OK to use the outside of the cow but not the inside?


This one was quite the rant. Full of things I'd like to discuss. But, I'll narrow it down. Why Vikings, why not Minoans, Aztecs, Incas, Persians, Chinese, Egyptians, Mesopotamians, why not even more ancient wandering tribes that followed herds of animals across African plains? Morals are not tied to any religion it just isn't. To think it was is to quite literally believe that prior to religion that no one anywhere ever did anything selfless. No altruistic behavior what so ever, ever occurred until 2000-6000 yrs ago (depending on what religion one buys into). That is so ridiculous it goes without saying. No single person in any of these ancient civilizations ever did anything good because it the was the right thing to do. To believe that Morals came from religion is a childish fairy tail, that is propagated by organized religion and sadly when they target children, it is clearly quite effective brainwashing. Put it this way. I personally am an Atheist. And, those of you that call yourselves Muslim, christian, Jewish, etc are also atheist to other peoples religions and in so doing you must have some reason as to why your are your religion over another. I simply take it one god further. Also, to morals. I'd challenge you to find one single thing that a religious individual does that is currently "morally sound" that me, a non believer in any god could not also do. Just find one single thing that is "derived from religion that is moral that a non believer couldn't also do.... just one. That should be enough right there and adequate toward the simple explanation that there is no Moral root to any religion. Right and wrong is a bit black and white as well. I think I agree with bits and pieces in the regard that there really is NO right and wrong but there certainly are shades of right and wrong as it pertains to human social interactions. I mean, its up to you if you want to hang out with a murderer, a rapist, a liar, a cheat, etc. To each their own. The social weight and cause / effect of individuals decision making, is a major driving force of the ever changing moral landscape for social groups.

I'm not going to get into a lengthy diatribe on Climate change here. I've already done that. I find it quite frustrating that large groups of so called educated people can systematically dismiss repeatable, measurable data. It is what it is. And I find it weird that there are so many special interest groups (oil), paying off scientist to speak out on their behalf. Anyway, to streamline; Climates change over time. Bottom line is not that climates change. There is NO argument about that aspect at all. Its the RATE at which climates change and why or how this happens - and finally - is there something that can be done about it? CO2 and Methane are 2 HUGE contributing factors to the greenhouse effect. The two largest and most impactful of all of the gases in the atmosphere. They are in effect blankets that allow the earth's atmosphere to retain heat. We (humans) are exponentially adding these gases to the atmosphere at a rate that has never been seen before. Take from it what you will. I will leave it at that.

Why is an educator of our youth worried that our president wasn't elected by popular vote ? we use a different method to elect the president .Popular vote is like the time of possession of politics .... important but not critical. Is today's education both primary & higher education really education or is it indoctrination into a new world religion of liberal socialism to foment a new morality that has abjectly failed across the globe?

EVERY single educator better should be at least mildly concerned or at a minimum aware of this. This same president was a candidate that over and over again said the system was rigged, that the system was out to get him. Ironically, this very system is what resulted in the election of the single most unqualified president int he history of our country. And to pour salt on the wound, his actions over the first few months only confirms the reservations and doubt that the majority of the population of US citizen had prior to the election. His approval rating is plummeting, and plummeting fast. It is currently hovering around the 33% range. Which, if you aren't overly familiar, is an incredibly low % for any president at this stage of his first term in office. That should at a minimum, raise a red flag for all Americans. When Trump was clamoring earlier on in 2016 during is campaign that the electoral college needed to be revised or thrown out... I find it quite funny now. Every educator, particularly the ones in science fields should take notice. Why, Well, this happens to be a policy maker. A person that is awarded the power to make decisions that have long lasting ripple effects on society, on laws, on the quality or lack there of as it pertains to our environment and resources. A person steers the country toward the future as it pertains to energy and policy - or flips a u turn and takes us backward. You should also care. But, I feel there are some issues that need a bit of clearing up along the way for many. That can only be done with effort and education.

It is occurring to me more and more as time goes on that, the biggest tragedy of mankinds thinking in my opinion is the hijacking of morality by religion. It just isn't directly tied to it, it never has been, and it really is that simple.
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Re: Presidential Election Fear

Postby JFever » Thu Apr 06, 2017 7:43 am

We evolved from apes correct why are there still apes and when will those apes evolve and what shall they evolve into ? Does the god of apes hate them or are they just a bit slow and need some extra help ? Why haven't any other creatures evolved in something resembling a human level of achievement ? Why haven't say a pig evolved into a martian or a dolphin evolved into a klingon?

Now.... I had to wait a bit to respond to this as I was quite busy yesterday. Anyway, this statement above is unfortunately fairly common in the United states south. It clearly reflects a lack of knowledge and understanding of evolutionary biology, Genetics and DNA fundamentals, paleontology, geographic distribution of fossils and current living forms, history of extinct hominid species, morphology, and embryology.

To be honest, I'm not 100% sure where this comes from but I have my guesses, and I'd assume the over simplified view and exaggerated point of humans coming from apes (which Darwin NEVER said in his 1859 Origins of Species book) comes from religion, or simply laziness. I actually saw that on a billboard off the side of a hwy next to a church a few years ago. Quite sad that things like that are spread, only then for people like me to clean it up. Humans did not come from modern day apes people. Rather, modern day apes and humans have a common ancestor. This common ancestor dates back about 1.5-2 million years. This is 100% accurate and can be measured by DNA analysis and confirmed by several different and separate fields of study. All of the silly statements above made by CC, actually could be well understood by all if we took the time to actually look things up.

I'll suggest first; Charles Darwin's "Origin of Species". It is a great read and basically changed the world. And, if you can understand artificial selection and the domestication of animals and plants, you can then easily come to terms with understanding the whole Ape, monkey, - human relationship. Anyway.... Authors and scientists like Richard Dawkins, Daniel Dennet, Carl Sagan, Sam Harris, Richard Fineman, Christopher Hitchins, Lawrence Kraus, and Neil deGrasse Tyson all have done excellent work in publishing multiple books tackling the very misconceptions that are mentioned in the above misinformed statement. I recommend being as informed as possible. A step in that direction for anyone with inaccurate and misinformed thoughts similar to what is mentioned above, should, could, or can rectify the problem by simply looking further into it today. Like right after your done reading this. Youtube search any of the people above, watch a bit, search for a book or two and consider buying one and read it, and you'll be better off or at least informed enough to discuss the topic. Don't go off of what you learned in Biology class 25-30 years ago particularly if you had a weak willed, timid biology teacher that was intimidated by the bible thumping PTA or school board, and certainly don't go off of what you've heard someone say - who isn't qualified to discuss the details of these scientifically relevant topics.

This is the year 2017 and having a twisted understanding of the world like the whole Pigs evolving into something new before your eyes, dolphins, aliens, klingon stuff.... etc is really an 18th century viewpoint. We (humans) also have a very narcissistic view of ourselves. Some people, clearly have this view and are vocal about it. Its as if we think we are the epitome or the best of the best. In reality, yes, we have the capacity for intelligence, we humans do have the potential for great things, inovation, health, music, art etc; BUT, not all humans are intelligent. Of ALL living things on this planet; We are not the strongest, the fastest, the biggest, etc. We don't have the best vision, sense of smell, hearing, balance, etc. Our best asset is our brain to body size ratio. It means we have the capacity to learn and to make connections of cause and effect. It doesn't at all mean that we are all smart. It doesn't at all mean that we humans are the "most evolved" or better than say a pig, a dolphin, or any other primate. Every single life form, from Bacteria to a sponge, to a starfish, to an arthropod (insect, spiders, crustaceans) to a worm, snail, clam, algae,to advanced land plants like mosses, gymnosperms up to angiosperms (flowering fruit producing plants ) to the fungi kingdom, then to the vertebrates - fish, amphibian, reptile, bird, mammal - are at this moment, perfectly suited for "it's" or their specific niche in its specific environment at its time of existence. View points and questions like worded above - simply just show a cartoon like understanding of science, illogical conclusions based off of the spreading of mis-truths and the acceptance of an approach that coddles ignoring evidence or misunderstanding of evidence and the real world we live in.

People flipped out when harambe got blasted .... why it was a damned gorilla ?
was it just a moral being saving a kids life ?


This one here, I think was, at least from what I heard of it, was more of a lashing out at a very very irresponsible parent. The gorilla would have never been touched, hurt, or shot, if that parent would have been paying attention to their child. That parent is indirectly to blame and as far as morals go - that parent was unintentionally immoral in my eyes. I have no problem with the whole shoot the animal to save the child, but, in this case, it shouldn't have happened and wouldn't have happened if only the child's parent(s) were doing their job at monitoring the child's whereabouts and behavior while at a zoo and walking around a primate enclosure.
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Re: Presidential Election Fear

Postby Coogan Football » Fri Apr 07, 2017 9:43 am

Trump "ain't playin no bullshit" with Syria :clap:
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Re: Presidential Election Fear

Postby azthecrow » Fri Apr 07, 2017 12:20 pm

Coogan Football wrote:
Fri Apr 07, 2017 9:43 am
Trump "ain't playin no bullshit" with Syria :clap:
:clap:
Last edited by azthecrow on Mon Apr 16, 2018 9:08 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Presidential Election Fear

Postby JFever » Wed Feb 14, 2018 11:29 pm

This was an interesting and semi familiar revisit. It's lengthy but a fun read. Kinda having deja Vu.

Lol
Truth is found through Evidence.

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* Reality (as defined by Webster's dictionary) - A word for things as they actually exist, as opposed to an idealistic or notional ideal of them.


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