Sammy vs Nuk

[Jimmy Jones]

How much better would you guys say Sammy is than Hopkins. I just zoned out watching a YouTube highlight video of Nuk on my phone and forgot it was him, thought it was Sammy. People on this forum are talking about trading away the house for the 1.01. Is Sammy way ahead of Nuk? Just got into dynasty this year do I wasn't around last year to compare the hype. I'm guessing (hoping) Sammy is way above Hopkins since I plan on using a pick on him..

[Mike_Blahnik]

I don't have Sammy way ahead of Nuk, but Sammy (pending combine measurements and NFL draft results) projects a little trendier than Hopkins does.

I see Watkins upside somewhere around Randall Cobb while Hopkins is somewhere around vintage 'Quan Boldin. Both are huge assets, not sure I would/could trade either one for the other. I'm a Gemini, lol!

[DallasN1213]

I prefer Nuk and its a small group.

[aaroneous]

I have Sammy far ahead of Hopkins. For me it isn't about the hype level alone, but the fact that I was very disappointed by Nuk this past season. He didn't capitalize like he should have and made too many mental errors.

[all day]

I have Sammy far ahead of Hopkins. For me it isn't about the hype level alone, but the fact that I was very disappointed by Nuk this past season. He didn't capitalize like he should have and made too many mental errors.

Yeah, 800 yards from a rookie catching the ball from Case Keegan sucks. Josh Gordon had 3 yards more than that as a rookie. Might take want to give him a year or two.

Obviously they have very different skill sets. Watkins is faster and quicker but Nuk is a great route runner and gets to the highest point to catch the ball. I think Watkins has a higher ceiling but Nuk has a higher floor.

[kmbryant09]

Without looking at Hopkins' combine or anything, I think Watkins looks like a much better athlete.

I'm guessing he's about an inch shorter, but probably outweighs Hopkins by 10-15 pounds. Just by looking and Hopkins on the field, he looks VERY thin, and I think it affected his ability to play against physical cornerbacks.

Overall, Watkins is just a little faster, a little quicker, and a little better with the ball in his hands.

[aaroneous]

I have Sammy far ahead of Hopkins. For me it isn't about the hype level alone, but the fact that I was very disappointed by Nuk this past season. He didn't capitalize like he should have and made too many mental errors.

Yeah, 800 yards from a rookie catching the ball from Case Keegan sucks. Josh Gordon had 3 yards more than that as a rookie. Might take want to give him a year or two.

Obviously they have very different skill sets. Watkins is faster and quicker but Nuk is a great route runner and gets to the highest point to catch the ball. I think Watkins has a higher ceiling but Nuk has a higher floor.

Can't just look at numbers at the end of the season. He made a LOT of mistakes out there. Also, you're greatly underselling Watkins' ability to high point the ball and his ability to run routes.

I completely understand you're a Hopkins owner, but you also need to recognize that various coaches/reports recognized his vast amount of mental errors despite being straight handed the starting job.

Prorate Dobson's numbers across a full season, and 50/700/5 vs Nuk's 50/800/2. Yet, for some reason, everyone thinks Dobson's season was awful and that he is just going to get bypassed next season despite dealing with significant foot injuries throughout the season.

[kmbryant09]

I have Sammy far ahead of Hopkins. For me it isn't about the hype level alone, but the fact that I was very disappointed by Nuk this past season. He didn't capitalize like he should have and made too many mental errors.

Yeah, 800 yards from a rookie catching the ball from Case Keegan sucks. Josh Gordon had 3 yards more than that as a rookie. Might take want to give him a year or two.

Obviously they have very different skill sets. Watkins is faster and quicker but Nuk is a great route runner and gets to the highest point to catch the ball. I think Watkins has a higher ceiling but Nuk has a higher floor.

In all fairness, I think the major reason why most rookie (young) receivers don't put up the stats is because they aren't on the field for 60 plays a game.

For the majority of the season, Hopkins was fully entrenched as the every-down #2 receiver. So it's not like his stats are about to see a natural uptick based on playing time + opportunity.

And yeah, say all you want about Case Keenum, but Houston QB's threw for roughly 4,200 yards and 19 TD's - so there was plenty of opportunities and yards to go around.

[teambadknees]

Nuk was a rookie and most rookie recievers have a hard time adjusting to the NFL. Very few have immediate impact. With that offense that Kubiak ran I'm not surprised at all that Nuk wasn't heavily targeted. If your not the X receiver or a TE odds are you're lucky yo get more than 5 targets a game. The jury is still out on him. He probably won't have an amazing sophomore season (another rookie QB and new system) but year 3 should definitely show improvements at least.

Watkins is more dynamic of a reciever. I think he too will have an up and down rookie campaign. Much of his early success depends on his landing place IMO. He reminds me a lot of a smaller faster D Thomas. They loved to throw him screens and shallow digs and let him run all over the field. A west coast offense would make him pretty scary (after his rookie season).

Both are desirable players to own and are very different in terms of talents and playing style. Most will have Watkins higher by a large margin. I think he is very good but shares tier 1 with a few other players.

[all day]

Can't just look at numbers at the end of the season. He made a LOT of mistakes out there. Also, you're greatly underselling Watkins' ability to high point the ball and his ability to run routes.

I completely understand you're a Hopkins owner, but you also need to recognize that various coaches/reports recognized his vast amount of mental errors despite being straight handed the starting job.

Prorate Dobson's numbers across a full season, and 50/700/5 vs Nuk's 50/800/2. Yet, for some reason, everyone thinks Dobson's season was awful and that he is just going to get bypassed next season despite dealing with significant foot injuries throughout the season.

Of course you can't just look at numbers. Watching him play he looked hit or miss, I will agree, but he is a rookie. Since 1970 only 29 rookies have put 800+ yard seasons and two of them were last year. Give him a year or two too get used to being a pro. He will only be 22 next year.

The reason I am discounting Watkins ability to win down the field is that he doesn't do it very often. Last year 69% of his receptions were 5 yards or shorter. I like Watkins but I have a few questions about him that need to be answered, starting with his height at the combine. I like his potential but he is getting talked about like he is the next AJG or Julio and if people expect that, I think they will be disappointed.

And me being a Hopkins owner has nothing to do with it. He was my #1 receiver in last year's class and I saw nothing to change my opinion. Give he a decent QB in the draft and things should improve.

I don't know where Dobson came from but extrapolating out stats is no way to strengthen your argument. Either they didn't it or didn't. That said I have no problem with him but just thought that was weird.

[aaroneous]

Of course you can't just look at numbers. Watching him play he looked hit or miss, I will agree, but he is a rookie. Since 1970 only 29 rookies have put 800+ yard seasons and two of them were last year. Give him a year or two too get used to being a pro. He will only be 22 next year.

The reason I am discounting Watkins ability to win down the field is that he doesn't do it very often. Last year 69% of his receptions were 5 yards or shorter. I like Watkins but I have a few questions about him that need to be answered, starting with his height at the combine. I like his potential but he is getting talked about like he is the next AJG or Julio and if people expect that, I think they will be disappointed.

And me being a Hopkins owner has nothing to do with it. He was my #1 receiver in last year's class and I saw nothing to change my opinion. Give he a decent QB in the draft and things should improve.

I don't know where Dobson came from but extrapolating out stats is no way to strengthen your argument. Either they didn't it or didn't. That said I have no problem with him but just thought that was weird.

I have found time and again that when someone drafts a player, they struggle to get beyond the hype that lead them to drafting the player. The Dobson point was just a comment on how claiming that when looking Hopkins' season and comparing it to another rookie player that everyone seems to think is pretty much done for you aren't that far off in final per game production.

Don't get me wrong, I'm as skeptical of Watkins as the next guy, but I think the same thing is generally going on with Hopkins. He has a lot of growing pains just as Watkins does. In fact, Watkins is almost exactly a year younger.

I essentially look at it like this: They both have very high upside, its just while Hopkins has shown the positive glimpses, I've also seen him get a very good opportunity and waste some of it. Watkins still has the blank slate at the NFL level (for better or for worse).

[clarion contrarion]

yearly to do list
feb 2nd .... trade for last year's hot wr prospect that has turned into a slug from an owner who is after the next big thing

feb 2nd 2014 trade for deandre hopkins / justin hunter cause they suck now even though they had all the tools last year this time
feb 2nd 2015 trade for sammy watkins after his putrid 900 yard 5 td season
feb 2nd 2016 trade for amari cooper after his putrid 740 yard 2 td season

in honor of groundhog day

[Big Al]

yearly to do list
feb 2nd .... trade for last year's hot wr prospect that has turned into a slug from an owner who is after the next big thing

feb 2nd 2014 trade for deandre hopkins / justin hunter cause they suck now even though they had all the tools last year this time
feb 2nd 2015 trade for sammy watkins after his putrid 900 yard 5 td season
feb 2nd 2016 trade for amari cooper after his putrid 740 yard 2 td season

in honor of groundhog day

Now this is just plain funny. Well put.

[aaroneous]

yearly to do list
feb 2nd .... trade for last year's hot wr prospect that has turned into a slug from an owner who is after the next big thing

feb 2nd 2014 trade for deandre hopkins / justin hunter cause they suck now even though they had all the tools last year this time
feb 2nd 2015 trade for sammy watkins after his putrid 900 yard 5 td season
feb 2nd 2016 trade for amari cooper after his putrid 740 yard 2 td season

in honor of groundhog day

Its definitely a good approach though. People sour so much on players so quickly if they don't instantly produce. While I know a lot of what I said seems like I hate Hopkins, I don't. I'm just higher on Watkins!

I know I've taken this approach to Dobson this season. Everyone seemed to be all over him and how he's going to be an incredible "Randy Moss light" for the Pats. Now all of a sudden he shouldn't even be a weapon for them to develop in the future? C'mon.

I also would love to find a way to get Hopkins or Hunter, but the guy that owns him I know is very "all in" on them and riding the train to wherever the destination may be.

[kmbryant09]

I like his potential but he is getting talked about like he is the next AJG or Julio and if people expect that, I think they will be disappointed.

This I have to severely disagree with.

I've been very active in most/all of Sammy Watkins threads around here - I even created the Tale of the Tape thread on Watkins that has 1500 hits.

The underlying consensus is that while he is a great prospect and a very, very valuable dynasty commodity - he is CLEARLY below the tier of AJG and Julio as a prospect.