2013 vs 2014 WRs

[Doggie]

I would love to provide an answer. However, I don't see how you can effectively compare positions, especially LB-WR unless we are only talking points. The only way to compare two positions with points being equal, is if there were an equal number of available players at each position, thus making each as valuable (make sense?) See, part of what makes Jimmy Graham as valuable as he is, isn't the fact that he simply scored "X points" ... but that he scores "X points" compared to the other players at his position. So, to compare WR's which is probably the most plentiful position to LB (which I am not that familiar with) is probably not as effective as comparing each to other players at their SAME POSITION then comparing their VALUES.

[Cy23]

I would love to provide an answer. However, I don't see how you can effectively compare positions, especially LB-WR unless we are only talking points. The only way to compare two positions with points being equal, is if there were an equal number of available players at each position, thus making each as valuable (make sense?) See, part of what makes Jimmy Graham as valuable as he is, isn't the fact that he simply scored "X points" ... but that he scores "X points" compared to the other players at his position. So, to compare WR's which is probably the most plentiful position to LB (which I am not that familiar with) is probably not as effective as comparing each to other players at their SAME POSITION then comparing their VALUES.

I agree that comparing to others in the same position group is what is most important. But you still need to compare between position groups to really know when you want to trade.

In this case, there are two steps... 1) What is Patterson going to become compared to WR's? (Top 5, top 10, top 15, etc.)
2) Would you give up that production at WR for a similar scoring LB, or do you value WR more than LB?

My deal is that I always end up valuing WR over every other position, so I get a stacked roster at WR and everyone gives me crap because my "prices are too high."

[smudga55]

please dont deal CP for a LB.....unless its to me.
I do play in an IDP dyno (just not in my sig) and the values of IDPs are very scheme dependant. i cant think of any deal where I'd send a top 20 dyno WR for the no 1 dyno LB tbh.

[Cy23]

please dont deal CP for a LB.....unless its to me.
I do play in an IDP dyno (just not in my sig) and the values of IDPs are very scheme dependant. i cant think of any deal where I'd send a top 20 dyno WR for the no 1 dyno LB tbh.

That is kind of how I value LB's, but the rest of the league doesn't.

My problem is you have very few LB's who are consistently good year to year, and even the best of the bunch (Willis, previously) can be unseated (by Bowman). Whereas WR's seem to have longer careers and are always startable, even if not consistently WR1.

(Sadly, the player I most wanted to trade for was Bowman, and thankfully he wouldn't budge. I'm sure he will come back from the ACL injury, but it won't be easy)

[Monkey]

Don't know if ya'll care, but I put the rankings together and averaged where they got ranked.

Sammy Watkins 1.81
Cordarrelle Patterson 3.56
Keenan Allen 3.81
Marqise Lee 4.06
Deandre Hopkins 5.00
Mike Evans 6.08
Jordan Matthews 6.15
Odell Beckham, Jr.** 7.00
Tavon Austin 7.50
Kelvin Benjamin 7.80
Brandon Coleman** 8.00
Donte Moncreif** 8.00
Justin Hunter 8.38
DeVante Adams 8.50
Allen Robinson 8.70
Quitton Patton** 9.00
Robert Woods** 10.00
Jarvis Landry** 10.50
Brandin Cooks** 11.50

Watkins, Patterson, Allen, and Lee were the only players that made every list. Beckham, Coleman, Moncreif, Patton, Woods, Landry, and Cooks were on two or fewer lists. Take those facts how you'd like I suppose.

[Cy23]

Any updated thoughts on this?

[Camperhead]

So Hopkins did not make every list, and Markus Wheaton made none of them?

[1standgoal]

So Hopkins did not make every list, and Markus Wheaton made none of them?

It appears that way.

I contest that Hopkins is being vastly underrated and he was one of my target "buy-lows" this offseason.

[Monkey]

Hopkins made 14/16 lists, so he was pretty close. And no, Wheaton was not on any of the lists. I just joined a dynasty league last year so I didn't really research the rookies that well before, what's the hype on Wheaton? Where was he ranked last year around the same time compared to the others? Is he like a Moncrief type or like a Cooks type for this year?

Seems like Wheaton and Lattimore are high on people's lists, but since I was only involved with dynasty since last year, I don't get it. Though it is interesting to see the Steeler's website currently has Wheaton listed at WR1 and Antonio Brown at WR2, so I'd imagine he'll get more then 64 yards this year.

[Cy23]

Hopkins made 14/16 lists, so he was pretty close. And no, Wheaton was not on any of the lists. I just joined a dynasty league last year so I didn't really research the rookies that well before, what's the hype on Wheaton? Where was he ranked last year around the same time compared to the others? Is he like a Moncrief type or like a Cooks type for this year?

Seems like Wheaton and Lattimore are high on people's lists, but since I was only involved with dynasty since last year, I don't get it. Though it is interesting to see the Steeler's website currently has Wheaton listed at WR1 and Antonio Brown at WR2, so I'd imagine he'll get more then 64 yards this year.

If Wheaton is listed as WR1 that is only due to how they will use him in the formation-- Brown is the #1 WR for the Steelers.

That said, Wheaton was a clear tier 3 guy last year IMO, but others had him higher. I had it:
Tier 1: Austin, Patterson, Hopkins
Tier 2: Allen, Hunter
Tier 3: Wheaton, Woods

I was very happy to have him fall to me at 2.05 (Dobson went 2.07, Terrance Williams 3.03). He was a potential late first round pick in some leagues, but I considered him a second round pick. He was given no opportunity (and had minor injuries) in 2013, but with Cotchery/Sanders gone from PIT, he is in line to be the #2 WR.

[AK49]

I have a question for those of you more experienced dynasty owners

Last year Keenan went late-1st round in most drafts. Yet now, he is mostly top 3 on everyone's list now while Tavon is missing on most. Whereas last year Tavon was toated the WR1

If you ask me, this speaks A LOT to situation over talent. Do we really think Keenan is that much better than Tavon .. or could it be that Keenan landed a starting role with a bounceback QB (Rivers).

K. Allen- 6'2" 206 lb was tough to evaluate... watching film on him he was my second favorite WR after Hopkins. However, he had a turrible QB, horrendous 40 and a late knee injury. His size and film were much more inline with a prototypical WR in the NFL.

Austin - 5'8" 174 lb was different. Not a typical combination of attributes that lends to succeeding in the NFL. However, there were people who were very excited about him and the Rams only added fuel to the fire by drafting him in the top 10.
There was a large contingent of Dynasty owners who wanted nothing to to with the guy. I cheered when he was taken ahead of me in rookie drafts.

Lastly, I recommend making your dynasty rankings now and sticking pretty close to them. For wide receivers I strongly preach talent over situation. I mean look people were groaning that AJ Green went to Cincy with a fellow rookie QB. In Denver I dumped Demaryius when Tebow took over... ugh.
For Running Backs I think situation factors in more. Bell is not the most talented back in the 2013 class, but his situation bolstered his production.

[clarion contrarion]

nope going into the draft process allen was universally a to 2 or 3 choice .... then there was a knee injury a suspect urine test (later proved to be a snafu I think)
and a slow forty. austin was overdrafted and shot up boards he literally was not even in my top 20 due to size concerns and I was on the record as comparing him to dante hall .... a helluva returner but very suspect in fantasy except in return yardage leagues.
allen has perfect size and good enough speed and is a technician and reminded me of cris carter

[Cy23]

I have a question for those of you more experienced dynasty owners

Last year Keenan went late-1st round in most drafts. Yet now, he is mostly top 3 on everyone's list now while Tavon is missing on most. Whereas last year Tavon was toated the WR1

If you ask me, this speaks A LOT to situation over talent. Do we really think Keenan is that much better than Tavon .. or could it be that Keenan landed a starting role with a bounceback QB (Rivers).

K. Allen- 6'2" 206 lb was tough to evaluate... watching film on him he was my second favorite WR after Hopkins. However, he had a turrible QB, horrendous 40 and a late knee injury. His size and film were much more inline with a prototypical WR in the NFL.

Austin - 5'8" 174 lb was different. Not a typical combination of attributes that lends to succeeding in the NFL. However, there were people who were very excited about him and the Rams only added fuel to the fire by drafting him in the top 10.
There was a large contingent of Dynasty owners who wanted nothing to to with the guy. I cheered when he was taken ahead of me in rookie drafts.

Lastly, I recommend making your dynasty rankings now and sticking pretty close to them. For wide receivers I strongly preach talent over situation. I mean look people were groaning that AJ Green went to Cincy with a fellow rookie QB. In Denver I dumped Demaryius when Tebow took over... ugh.
For Running Backs I think situation factors in more. Bell is not the most talented back in the 2013 class, but his situation bolstered his production.

I agree with you, but I do think that Doggie is correct and people are being too influenced by situation now. Austin didn't perform, so he disappears... Allen performed, so he is overvalued.

That said, I think people were too cautious with Allen last year-- until his injury, he was the #1 WR. After he got hurt, his stock kept falling due to the injury, slow times, draft situation, etc. Now that he has proven himself, people are projecting based on his previous #1 WR attributes.

But I think people are falling victim to the recency bias and may be missing out on Austin.