Pre-Combine RB Board

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DynoScout
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Pre-Combine RB Board

Postby DynoScout » Sat Feb 06, 2016 2:35 pm

Hi forum members,
Posting my pre-combine RB board for productive discussion and feedback. I go about 18 deep right now but after the first 9 (or so) I'm not all that interested unless someone tests through the roof or is drafted to a dream scenario.

Thanks for your time and thoughts!
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Re: Pre-Combine RB Board

Postby DynoScout » Sat Feb 06, 2016 2:36 pm

1. Zeke Elliott - Not much insight to add. Everyone knows about him. Strong case to be the 1.01 overall.
2. Derrick Henry - I think he has lighter feet and more size adjusted agility than people give him credit for. For the life of his rookie contract I think he will be a valuable producer. After that, wear and tear and limited passing game work may become an issue and limit his value.
3. C.J. Prosise - Short track record at RB, but like what I’ve seen. Has not developed bad habits and shows potential to develop into a complete running back. Experience at WR helps him as a receiver out of the backfield; good hands technique and his feet don’t stop while he secures the catch allowing him to transition quickly from a receiver to a runner.
4. Kenneth Dixon - Dominant production. Promising agility and explosion on tape. Whether lateral or forward, moves smoothly and with intent. Productive receiver who might not have to come off the field once he develops his pass protection technique.
5. Paul Perkins - Explosive athlete that moves smoothly through traffic. Make you miss ability that I think will translate to the NFL. Could develop into a three-down contributor.
6. Alex Collins - Extremely productive track record in the SEC. Feet follow his eyes, but somewhat a rhythm runner who needs a few touches to get going. Runs a bit hot and cold, but when running hot shows enough to be better half of an RBBC at the next level. Has not shown much as a receiver.
7. Jordan Howard - A punisher. Big back who delivers the blow and has impressive age-adjusted production. Could have a Jeremy Hill-level impact and role early on. Durability is somewhat of a question mark.
8. Jonathan Williams - Dealt with injury in 2015. Great build, Good hands. Nice feet. Explosive and decisive. Has some make you miss at full speed. Shows a lot of what I look for in RB prospects. When healthy basically split carries with Alex Collins.
9. Devontae Booker - Complete back who lacks a truly elite trait. Has some bad habits as a runner and will need to adapt play style to maintain a productive role. Coming off an injury and an older type prospect who started out at community college prior to playing at Utah.
10. Kenyan Drake
11. Keith Marshall - If he recaptures pre-injury form I'm definitely interested.
12. Byron Marshall
13. Alex Green
14. Tyler Ervin
15. Dwayne Washington
16. Kelvin Taylor
17. Josh Ferguson
18. D.J. Foster

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Re: Pre-Combine RB Board

Postby Cherokee » Sat Feb 06, 2016 11:57 pm

E
Booker
Collins
Henry
JWill
Dixon
Perkins
Lasco
Howard
Ferguson
Drake
Prosise
Greene (Bowling Green)
Ervin
Marshall
12 Team 1QB IDP Full PPR Start 8
QB- Kenny Pickett, Jake Haener, Clayton Tune
RB- Jerrick McKinnon, Elijah Mitchell, Gus Edwards, Kenneth Gainwell, TDP, Jordan Mason
WR- Rondale Moore, Drake London, Jordan Addison, Terrence Marshall , Garrett Wilson, Chris Olave, Mecole Hardman, Rashid Shaheed, David Bell
TE- Michael Mayer, Likely, Chig, Cade Otten
LB- Jewell, Deablo, Troy Anderson
DE- Phillips, Highsmith
DB- Brisker, Hufanga, Cine
Taxi Squad: Chase Brown, A.T. Perry, Keaton Mitchell, Khalan Laborn, Lew Nichols lll

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Re: Pre-Combine RB Board

Postby DynoScout » Sun Feb 07, 2016 5:54 am

Thanks, Cherokee. The big difference that jumps out at me is Prosise.

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Re: Pre-Combine RB Board

Postby Cherokee » Sun Feb 07, 2016 6:11 am

He ran well but why hasnt he gotten the go in the past. It took injuries for him to see the field. I feel like Notre Dame RB position is similar to the Chiefs where you can add in any runner with a pulse and get productivity. ND has extremely talented WRs and TEs as well that open up the box at all times. I could be wrong but if youre going with a big back, Id take JWill or Howard ahead of him. Check Lasco as well. He can play and Cal RBs have always transitioned nicely to the league. He will be a big late round hit IMO
12 Team 1QB IDP Full PPR Start 8
QB- Kenny Pickett, Jake Haener, Clayton Tune
RB- Jerrick McKinnon, Elijah Mitchell, Gus Edwards, Kenneth Gainwell, TDP, Jordan Mason
WR- Rondale Moore, Drake London, Jordan Addison, Terrence Marshall , Garrett Wilson, Chris Olave, Mecole Hardman, Rashid Shaheed, David Bell
TE- Michael Mayer, Likely, Chig, Cade Otten
LB- Jewell, Deablo, Troy Anderson
DE- Phillips, Highsmith
DB- Brisker, Hufanga, Cine
Taxi Squad: Chase Brown, A.T. Perry, Keaton Mitchell, Khalan Laborn, Lew Nichols lll

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Re: Pre-Combine RB Board

Postby DynoScout » Sun Feb 07, 2016 6:58 am

I'll take a look at Lasco, for sure. I immediately went to DB and watched the one cut-up they had on him. Need to see more to form an opinion but I appreciate the assignment.

Regarding Prosise, he was originally recruited as a WR/S. In 2014 he was a sometimes-starter at WR. During the off-season the coaches switched him to RB. It was an injury to Tarean Foster early in 2015 (against Texas) that elevated Prosise to starter at RB.

I get what you're saying, but his route to RB touches doesn't really impact my evaluation. What he did with those touches is more meaningful to me.
As a result he's under-developed in some areas, but he also lacks bad habits.
I'm not worried about is the overall athleticism or his receiving ability.
I'm more concerned about his ability to break arm-tackles at the next level.

I'm not taking him as a big back in the Howard mold. I see him more in the vein of a Karlos Williams and Jeremy Langford. Big enough to get traditional RB touches but good enough catching the ball to be PPR assets.

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Re: Pre-Combine RB Board

Postby RightlegTucker » Mon Feb 08, 2016 9:49 pm

Great thread guys, I haven't had a chance to look at some of the deeper prospects yet but my top 8 as of now are as follows

1) Ezekiel Elliott
2) Derrick Henry
3) Devontae Booker
4) Kenneth Dixon
5) Alex Collins
6) C.J. Prosise
7) Paul Perkins
8) Ian Howard

I'm really intrigued by Prosise as well, I expect him to rise in the coming months. I am somewhat concerned by his experience, upright running style, and the majority of his runs came out of shotgun from the videos I watched. Big fan of his ability though, he's light on his feet for a bigger back and his receiving ability bodes well forPPR. I thought he had good leg drive and vision as well. I'd be interested to hear the bad habits you saw in Booker Dyno since I'm a big fan of his.

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Re: Pre-Combine RB Board

Postby clarion contrarion » Tue Feb 09, 2016 1:52 pm

well done Scout we are different on a few guy both here and on the WR chart , I will send a PM with ? but it may be in the morning before I get it done.
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Re: Pre-Combine RB Board

Postby DynoScout » Tue Feb 09, 2016 6:40 pm

RightlegTucker wrote:Great thread guys, I haven't had a chance to look at some of the deeper prospects yet but my top 8 as of now are as follows

1) Ezekiel Elliott
2) Derrick Henry
3) Devontae Booker
4) Kenneth Dixon
5) Alex Collins
6) C.J. Prosise
7) Paul Perkins
8) Ian Howard

I'm really intrigued by Prosise as well, I expect him to rise in the coming months. I am somewhat concerned by his experience, upright running style, and the majority of his runs came out of shotgun from the videos I watched. Big fan of his ability though, he's light on his feet for a bigger back and his receiving ability bodes well forPPR. I thought he had good leg drive and vision as well. I'd be interested to hear the bad habits you saw in Booker Dyno since I'm a big fan of his.
Thanks for showing your work! One quick question, is Ian Howard -> Jordan Howard? Curious if there is a name I've missed.

RE: Prosise - Sounds like we see a lot of the same upside. I know many will hold his lack of experience against him, but I think that can generally be a positive depending on the natural feel and athletic ability of the player. In my eyes I think Prosise demonstrated feel/athleticism/upside that few in this class can match. Another positive; even if he doesn't reach his full potential I think his PPR ability carries water on it's own.

RE: Booker - I like the player. I'd have no problem drafting him if he were BPA. What I saw that was somewhat concerning were what I would call discipline issues bouncing things to the edge and relying on being a bit bigger/faster than his peers to make that work. When that physical edge disappears at the next level I'm a little worried if he's going to learn that sometimes you just have to stick it up in there and get the three yards your OL earned for you. If he irons that out, and I think he could, then I think he can be a solid running back. I like his PPR upside and I think his ability there bakes in a bit of a high-floor for him (similar to Prosise).

Hope this helps! Thanks for the question.

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Re: Pre-Combine RB Board

Postby DynoScout » Tue Feb 09, 2016 6:42 pm

clarion contrarion wrote:well done Scout we are different on a few guy both here and on the WR chart , I will send a PM with ? but it may be in the morning before I get it done.
Cheers, CC. Thanks for stopping by. Look forward to comparing notes.

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Re: Pre-Combine RB Board

Postby Dynasty DeLorean » Thu Feb 11, 2016 7:30 pm

Just started watching tape of these guys. I'll give a few quick thoughts for the guys I watched so far.

Zeke - Solid everywhere, very nice burst.

Kenneth Dixon - This guy is ultra impressive. Love his balance, quickness, strength, awareness and ability out of the backfield. Needs to work on pass blocking but when all is said and done might be my #1 or #2 overall back. If you squint hard enough you can see a Frank Gore/Ray Rice hybrid player. Dixon says he patterned his game after Marshall Faulk.

Henry - One trick pony but the trick is really good. Might be the most situation-dependent back in the draft. Will need a good O-line to thrive.

Prosise - Ultra patient, fluid runner with good speed but didn't really show me enough burst/strength to get me overly excited. As with the rest of the RB's I'll be very interested in his combine numbers.

Devontae Booker - Poor man's Kenneth Dixon. Always carries with his left hand.

Alex Collins - Too much thinking when he's running results in hesitation and unnecessary stutter stepping. Overall awareness seems lacking, evidenced by when he put a spin move on thin air https://youtu.be/m1e_3s2TFlE?t=3m12s . I've never seen a RB juke a ghost before. Ultimately plays too slow for my liking.

Paul Perkins - Nice agility but lacking in overall athleticism (didn't see much speed/burst) and power.

Jonathan Williams - I love his burst and energy but he plays too fast, so in that regard he's the polar opposite of Collins. Not really refined in several areas he should be such as patience, pad level, etc...

Jordan Howard - Big monotone runner with limited vision and agility.
Last edited by Dynasty DeLorean on Sat Feb 13, 2016 4:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Pre-Combine RB Board

Postby RightlegTucker » Fri Feb 12, 2016 12:49 pm

DynoScout wrote:
Thanks for showing your work! One quick question, is Ian Howard -> Jordan Howard? Curious if there is a name I've missed.

RE: Prosise - Sounds like we see a lot of the same upside. I know many will hold his lack of experience against him, but I think that can generally be a positive depending on the natural feel and athletic ability of the player. In my eyes I think Prosise demonstrated feel/athleticism/upside that few in this class can match. Another positive; even if he doesn't reach his full potential I think his PPR ability carries water on it's own.

RE: Booker - I like the player. I'd have no problem drafting him if he were BPA. What I saw that was somewhat concerning were what I would call discipline issues bouncing things to the edge and relying on being a bit bigger/faster than his peers to make that work. When that physical edge disappears at the next level I'm a little worried if he's going to learn that sometimes you just have to stick it up in there and get the three yards your OL earned for you. If he irons that out, and I think he could, then I think he can be a solid running back. I like his PPR upside and I think his ability there bakes in a bit of a high-floor for him (similar to Prosise).

Hope this helps! Thanks for the question.

-DynoScout
You're right I did indeed mean Jordan that was a typo on my part, apologies! Thanks for your feedback though. When I go back and watch Booker I'll keep an eye out for his tendency to bounce things to the outside that you mentioned.

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Re: Pre-Combine RB Board

Postby DynoScout » Sun Feb 14, 2016 3:18 pm

Darkness wrote:Just started watching tape of these guys. I'll give a few quick thoughts for the guys I watched so far.

Zeke - Solid everywhere, very nice burst.

Kenneth Dixon - This guy is ultra impressive. Love his balance, quickness, strength, awareness and ability out of the backfield. Needs to work on pass blocking but when all is said and done might be my #1 or #2 overall back. If you squint hard enough you can see a Frank Gore/Ray Rice hybrid player. Dixon says he patterned his game after Marshall Faulk.

Henry - One trick pony but the trick is really good. Might be the most situation-dependent back in the draft. Will need a good O-line to thrive.

Prosise - Ultra patient, fluid runner with good speed but didn't really show me enough burst/strength to get me overly excited. As with the rest of the RB's I'll be very interested in his combine numbers.

Devontae Booker - Poor man's Kenneth Dixon. Always carries with his left hand.

Alex Collins - Too much thinking when he's running results in hesitation and unnecessary stutter stepping. Overall awareness seems lacking, evidenced by when he put a spin move on thin air https://youtu.be/m1e_3s2TFlE?t=3m12s . I've never seen a RB juke a ghost before. Ultimately plays too slow for my liking.

Paul Perkins - Nice agility but lacking in overall athleticism (didn't see much speed/burst) and power.

Jonathan Williams - I love his burst and energy but he plays too fast, so in that regard he's the polar opposite of Collins. Not really refined in several areas he should be such as patience, pad level, etc...

Jordan Howard - Big monotone runner with limited vision and agility.
Thanks for sharing your early thoughts. Interesting to hear another perspective.

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Re: Pre-Combine RB Board

Postby DynoScout » Sun Feb 14, 2016 3:25 pm

RightlegTucker wrote:
DynoScout wrote:
Thanks for showing your work! One quick question, is Ian Howard -> Jordan Howard? Curious if there is a name I've missed.

RE: Prosise - Sounds like we see a lot of the same upside. I know many will hold his lack of experience against him, but I think that can generally be a positive depending on the natural feel and athletic ability of the player. In my eyes I think Prosise demonstrated feel/athleticism/upside that few in this class can match. Another positive; even if he doesn't reach his full potential I think his PPR ability carries water on it's own.

RE: Booker - I like the player. I'd have no problem drafting him if he were BPA. What I saw that was somewhat concerning were what I would call discipline issues bouncing things to the edge and relying on being a bit bigger/faster than his peers to make that work. When that physical edge disappears at the next level I'm a little worried if he's going to learn that sometimes you just have to stick it up in there and get the three yards your OL earned for you. If he irons that out, and I think he could, then I think he can be a solid running back. I like his PPR upside and I think his ability there bakes in a bit of a high-floor for him (similar to Prosise).

Hope this helps! Thanks for the question.

-DynoScout
You're right I did indeed mean Jordan that was a typo on my part, apologies! Thanks for your feedback though. When I go back and watch Booker I'll keep an eye out for his tendency to bounce things to the outside that you mentioned.
Cheers RLT! Keep in mind that in my book bouncing outside is more about lack of discipline to play design (and developing bad habits that might not work in the NFL) than it is about poor vision. He shows adequate vision to pick the right lane and set up the second level defenders. Solid back.

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Re: Pre-Combine RB Board

Postby DynoScout » Sun Feb 21, 2016 6:06 am

Cherokee wrote:He ran well but why hasnt he gotten the go in the past. It took injuries for him to see the field. I feel like Notre Dame RB position is similar to the Chiefs where you can add in any runner with a pulse and get productivity. ND has extremely talented WRs and TEs as well that open up the box at all times. I could be wrong but if youre going with a big back, Id take JWill or Howard ahead of him. Check Lasco as well. He can play and Cal RBs have always transitioned nicely to the league. He will be a big late round hit IMO
I can get on board with Lasco as a functional NFL RB and later round pick. Nice eye, Cherokee.


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