When watching film of prospects

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gaz29
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When watching film of prospects

Postby gaz29 » Tue Apr 04, 2017 2:16 pm

I am after some advice, I don't get to watch any college football being in the uk so all my research is through reading articles.

I am going to start watching film of prospects but wondered what attributes you looked at when watching film for specific positions.

Just after some guidance and thoughts really.

Thanks
QB, RB, WR, WR, RB/WR/TE, TE, K, DB, DB, DL, DL, LB, LB

QB: R Wilson, D Watson, Keizer
RB: Elliott, Gillislee, Mack, Sims, K Dixon, McNicols, D Henderson
WR: Hopkins, Crabtree, Moncrief, W Fuller, Humphries, M Bryant, T Taylor (SF), Stills, Malone
TE: Graham, Rudolph.
K: Crosby, Hopkins
DB: Jefferson, Ryan, Bethal, Maye,
DL: Richardson, D Fowler, Garrett, Bosa
LB: Timmons, Alonso, Brown, Williams, J Smith

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HawkeyeState
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Re: When watching film of prospects

Postby HawkeyeState » Tue Apr 04, 2017 6:52 pm

Do you have any experience with playing or coaching american football?

The biggest thing you want to know, is know what traits are important for a player at X position to succeed, and then scout those traits.
If you get caught up watching the big plays or receiving out of the backfield or etc etc., you may miss something in their technique or they do on a more regular basis in routes or zone runs that is really not a good thing and could negatively affect their ability to succeed in the NFL.

Also, by scouting traits on film, you can accurately apply the same method to every player at the position. A sound and repeatable process is the key to being sound. Now being sound in scouting film/traits doesn't mean you won't miss, but without a sound and repeatable process, your just watching tape and not evaluating what you see.

My suggestion would be to try and listen to the Move the Sticks Podcast, First Draft podcast, and watch Path to The Draft/Mock Draft Live.
Move the sticks is a podcast put on by NFL Network Analysts Daniel Jeremiah and Bucky Brooks, who both played a little in the NFL but then worked in NFL scouting departments and front offices.
The First Draft Podcast is done by Mel Kiper Jr. and Todd McShay, NFL Draft analysts from ESPN.
Path to the Draft and Mock Draft Live are two NFL network Tv shows that DJ and Bucky from above also star in.

Yes the information they give on certain players is very very valuable as they were once professionally scouting players for NFL teams, but they also still have connections within the league and can get gauges on what teams think or say about a player and where they value players/think they can be drafted/succeed etc.

But the biggest takeaway you need to take from these podcasts and tv shows, is how they describe players. The descriptors and traits that they talk about when talking about prospects is a key to you to what traits scouts and NFL teams are valuing on players and you then can apply them to your film watching to evaluate traits.
Team 1
10 TM .5 PPR, 6 point TDs 1/2/3/1/2Flex
1-3/0-4
Newton, Rivers
Fournette, Hyde, Woodhead, Crowell, Lynch, Perine, DeWash, Thompson
Alshon, Watkins, ACooper, ARob, Adams, Fuller, Doctson, Funchess, JGordon, Floyd, Carroo
Gronk, HHenry, Engram, Doyle, Shaheen

Team 2
10 TM 1/2/3/1/1Flex
1-3
Wilson, Big Ben
Bell, Shady, CThompson, JQuizz, Lacy, Yeldon, Ivory, Riddick, Foreman, Conner, JWill, DeWash
Julio, Nuk, Watkins, Cooks, Cooper, ARob, CDavis, Shephard, TBoyd, Fuller, Carroo
Olsen, Hooper, Doyle

Team 3
12 team, 1 PPR, 1/1/1/1/4flex
1-3
Brady, Dalton, Siemien
Murray, Crowell, Kamara, Dixon, Sims, JWill, Hood
ARob, Cooks, Adams, JMatt, KWhite, Moncrief, TTaylor, LaFell
Engram, Doyle, Shaheen, ZMiller, JJames, Ladarius, Pruitt

Played against David Johnson in HS, he was a stud then too

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gaz29
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Re: When watching film of prospects

Postby gaz29 » Thu Apr 06, 2017 1:10 am

Thanks for the insight.

No I have no experience of playing or coaching.... only watching on TV and at the occasional International series.

I will research out the podcasts and have a listen to them and see what Daniel Jeremiah and Bucky Brooks both have to say.

Then I will have to find the highlights on Youtube I am guessing.
QB, RB, WR, WR, RB/WR/TE, TE, K, DB, DB, DL, DL, LB, LB

QB: R Wilson, D Watson, Keizer
RB: Elliott, Gillislee, Mack, Sims, K Dixon, McNicols, D Henderson
WR: Hopkins, Crabtree, Moncrief, W Fuller, Humphries, M Bryant, T Taylor (SF), Stills, Malone
TE: Graham, Rudolph.
K: Crosby, Hopkins
DB: Jefferson, Ryan, Bethal, Maye,
DL: Richardson, D Fowler, Garrett, Bosa
LB: Timmons, Alonso, Brown, Williams, J Smith

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HawkeyeState
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Re: When watching film of prospects

Postby HawkeyeState » Fri Apr 07, 2017 9:51 am

gaz29 wrote:
Thu Apr 06, 2017 1:10 am
Thanks for the insight.

No I have no experience of playing or coaching.... only watching on TV and at the occasional International series.

I will research out the podcasts and have a listen to them and see what Daniel Jeremiah and Bucky Brooks both have to say.

Then I will have to find the highlights on Youtube I am guessing.
draftbreakdown.com is the place you want to go to actually watch the film.
Highlights are just that, highlights of a player's best plays, usually with flashy sound and visual effects added at times. Sure you can evaluate players on their best plays, but then you'll think every player is great. Draftbreakdown allows you to watch entire games of just that player's snaps and evaluate them on their good and bad plays
Team 1
10 TM .5 PPR, 6 point TDs 1/2/3/1/2Flex
1-3/0-4
Newton, Rivers
Fournette, Hyde, Woodhead, Crowell, Lynch, Perine, DeWash, Thompson
Alshon, Watkins, ACooper, ARob, Adams, Fuller, Doctson, Funchess, JGordon, Floyd, Carroo
Gronk, HHenry, Engram, Doyle, Shaheen

Team 2
10 TM 1/2/3/1/1Flex
1-3
Wilson, Big Ben
Bell, Shady, CThompson, JQuizz, Lacy, Yeldon, Ivory, Riddick, Foreman, Conner, JWill, DeWash
Julio, Nuk, Watkins, Cooks, Cooper, ARob, CDavis, Shephard, TBoyd, Fuller, Carroo
Olsen, Hooper, Doyle

Team 3
12 team, 1 PPR, 1/1/1/1/4flex
1-3
Brady, Dalton, Siemien
Murray, Crowell, Kamara, Dixon, Sims, JWill, Hood
ARob, Cooks, Adams, JMatt, KWhite, Moncrief, TTaylor, LaFell
Engram, Doyle, Shaheen, ZMiller, JJames, Ladarius, Pruitt

Played against David Johnson in HS, he was a stud then too

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Dynasty DeLorean
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Re: When watching film of prospects

Postby Dynasty DeLorean » Tue Apr 11, 2017 6:59 pm

I really think it's more art than science. You can have 2 people who sort of know what they're looking at and see two completely different things. I feel like some people are just naturally good at it. You can talk until the cows come home about all the technical aspects of a players game like Matt Waldman does (not trying to bash the guy, just making a point) and be wrong about so many things or completely miss the bigger picture.

I would simply suggest watch the regular game cutups and not highlights, and ask yourself on each play what the player you're watching did and why. I tend to pick up on habits, such as seeing a player do the same (good or bad) thing several times. Watching a player do something once isn't really anything to take note of. But if they do the same thing several times, then it becomes something you should probably give more credence to. Also a lot of it is projecting to the NFL, just because something works in college doesn't mean it will work in the NFL.

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Re: When watching film of prospects

Postby 23B_Mills » Wed Apr 19, 2017 8:31 am

HawkeyeState wrote:
Fri Apr 07, 2017 9:51 am
draftbreakdown.com is the place you want to go to actually watch the film.
Highlights are just that, highlights of a player's best plays, usually with flashy sound and visual effects added at times. Sure you can evaluate players on their best plays, but then you'll think every player is great. Draftbreakdown allows you to watch entire games of just that player's snaps and evaluate them on their good and bad plays
X2 Gotta use Draft Breakdown
Team 1:
10 Team, Superflex, PPR, IDP -- 6pts/Passing TD, 1.5pts/10 rush yards 1pt. per 25 KR/PR yards -- Start QB, 2RB, 3WR, TE, 2 FLEX, OP, DL, 2LB, DB, 3DFLX, DEF/ST, K -- Roster 35

QB: Wilson, Smith, Goff, Garoppolo, Glennon, Dobbs
RB: Howard, Cook, Rawls, Prosise, Cohen, Jonathan Williams, McKinnon, Matt Jones
WR: Baldwin, Doctson, Treadwell, Maclin, Lockett, Carroo, Patterson, Richardson, Stills, Goodwin, Godwin, Woods, Reynolds, Chad Williams
TE: Njoku, Brate, Higbee
DL: F. Cox, C. Campbell,
LB: T. Smith, D. Jones, J. Davis
DB: R. McLeod, J. Peppers
2018 Picks -- 2 1st, 3 2nd, 2 3rd, 2 4th, 3 5th

Team 2:
12 Team Superflex Standard Scoring -- Roster 30

QB: Wilson, Smith, Siemian
RB: Miller, Rawls, Martin, Sims, Anderson, Johnson Jr. Dunbar, Jackson, Ervin
WR: Crabtree, M. Thomas, Maclin, Lockett, Perriman, Sharpe, Hogan, Carroo, Hill, Gabriel, Lee, Jaron Brown,
TE: Rudolph, Brate, Higbee
Picks: 1.2, 1.4, 1.9, 2.3, 2.12, 3.2, 3.5, 4.3, 4.6

Astonishment
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Re: When watching film of prospects

Postby Astonishment » Wed Apr 19, 2017 9:18 am

Some very good advice here for you. I would add that I think it is important to look for traits that you think lead to being successful at the next level. There will never be a single golden egg that says this guy will be god, but at least you can look for certain things that you believe are beneficial when making the jump to the pros.

Once you have some characteristics you think are important, look for them in all the prospects you watch because then you can compare prospects across the board on more of a level field. You can go to the extreme with this like Waldman does (with metrics for every aspect he thinks is important), or you can be more loose in the rigidness of how you measure your characteristics. This is where your personality, opinions, strengths and weaknesses will come through.

This type of process will help not get sucked into false hype, and if someone sees something opposite of what you thought you saw, you now have something to go back to when you are re-evaluating your opinion. You will also recognize some of your own blind spots and it can help you be more open minded to some prospect you might have otherwise ignored.

I go through this for every prospect I watch and I simply add to my notes after the senior bowl, combine, and after watching more games later down the road. This helps me to get a full picture of a player. If my opinion on him changed, why did it? Was the change valid or was I reacting to an outside opinion?

Here is an example of how I record what i am watching. It is kind just a brain dump, but helps when ranking or going back and viewing players.
Image
12 Team, 21 players, 4 man TS, 21 keepers, .5 PPR, 6 pt passing TD, .04 return yards, 4 round rookie draft
Start 10: 1 QB / 1-3 RB / 2-5 WR / 1-3 TE / 1 K / 1 Def

QB- Wilson, Dalton, Bradford
RB- Howard, Henry, Kamara, Abdullah, Foreman, Breida
WR- Cooper, Green, Robinson(IR), Diggs, Cobb, Sheppard, Treadwell, Goodwin, Grant
TE - Eifert, Ertz

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Re: When watching film of prospects

Postby Diti51 » Tue May 30, 2017 7:47 pm

two things to look at when scouting also and one other suggestion for education regarding terminology/how to describe what you see

1. for WR in college chart where he lines up, what route(s) from play to play. does he always line up on the right side outside? what routes does he run and does he run them well? when he faces press coverage, can he get off it? Did he play any games against a highly coveted CB in this draft or in previous draft classes? If so, how did he do? Is his low catch rate related to QB play or something else? Is he a hands versus body catcher? My ball mentality? Just to name a few

2. For RB, look at if he lines up outside the formation or is just used in passing game for dump offs. How is his pass pro? Often limiting factor for 3rd down work in NFL. Ball security? IF he fumbles, WHY did he fumble? What scheme does he look like he will fit in better? zone or gap scheme? Then when drafted can see if he is a scheme fit or will have to adjust.

Lastly, Greg Cosell is another good one to listen to on the fantasy guru podcast with John Hansen. Talks about traits and a foundation back versus primary back. Here is a link to his description of what it means comparing Dalvin Cook and Leonard Fournette.
https://sports.yahoo.com/news/greg-cose ... 52620.html

We are all constantly learning, and much of what has been said already is fantastic advice. Lots of people much brighter then me in these forums and on podcasts/online/tv. I know I love dynasty because we get to be our own GM. Good luck!
Team 1: Pray for Mojo
12 team dynasty PPR with TE premiumQB/2RB/2WR/TE/3FLEX/K/D
http://www63.myfantasyleague.com/2017/home/14805#0
QB: RiversFlacco/Mahomes
RB: Freeman/MixonPerine/Conner/McFadden/EMcGuire/BHill//DMays
WR: ACooper/HopkinsDoctson/Alshon/Golladay/Taywan Taylor
TE: WittenJCook/Engram/Swoope
DEVY: Equanimeous St Brown

Team 2: Project Mayhem
12 team dynasty PPR with TE premiumQB/2RB/2WR/TE/2FLEX/K/D
http://www64.myfantasyleague.com/2017/home/58823#0
QB: Mariota Tannehill
RB: CJAnderson/Gurley/Gore/Jonathan Williams/Sims/Devontae Booker/Elijah Hood/Elijah McGuire/Corey Clement
WR: ABrown/Evans/Diggs/SShephard/Malcom Mitchell/Braxton Miller/TAustin/Ishmael Zamora
TE: KRudolph/Austin Hooper/VMcDonald/Gerald Everett

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Re: When watching film of prospects

Postby Diti51 » Tue May 30, 2017 7:50 pm

Astonishment wrote:
Wed Apr 19, 2017 9:18 am
Some very good advice here for you. I would add that I think it is important to look for traits that you think lead to being successful at the next level. There will never be a single golden egg that says this guy will be god, but at least you can look for certain things that you believe are beneficial when making the jump to the pros.

Once you have some characteristics you think are important, look for them in all the prospects you watch because then you can compare prospects across the board on more of a level field. You can go to the extreme with this like Waldman does (with metrics for every aspect he thinks is important), or you can be more loose in the rigidness of how you measure your characteristics. This is where your personality, opinions, strengths and weaknesses will come through.

This type of process will help not get sucked into false hype, and if someone sees something opposite of what you thought you saw, you now have something to go back to when you are re-evaluating your opinion. You will also recognize some of your own blind spots and it can help you be more open minded to some prospect you might have otherwise ignored.

I go through this for every prospect I watch and I simply add to my notes after the senior bowl, combine, and after watching more games later down the road. This helps me to get a full picture of a player. If my opinion on him changed, why did it? Was the change valid or was I reacting to an outside opinion?

Here is an example of how I record what i am watching. It is kind just a brain dump, but helps when ranking or going back and viewing players.
Image
This is great stuff. Takes a lot of time but a lot of fun and truly gives you an edge over just reading what McShay et al say or think about a player. Best feeling is when you are listening to a podcast and know what the expert is going to say, or you actually disagree based on what you have seen an learned about a player.
Team 1: Pray for Mojo
12 team dynasty PPR with TE premiumQB/2RB/2WR/TE/3FLEX/K/D
http://www63.myfantasyleague.com/2017/home/14805#0
QB: RiversFlacco/Mahomes
RB: Freeman/MixonPerine/Conner/McFadden/EMcGuire/BHill//DMays
WR: ACooper/HopkinsDoctson/Alshon/Golladay/Taywan Taylor
TE: WittenJCook/Engram/Swoope
DEVY: Equanimeous St Brown

Team 2: Project Mayhem
12 team dynasty PPR with TE premiumQB/2RB/2WR/TE/2FLEX/K/D
http://www64.myfantasyleague.com/2017/home/58823#0
QB: Mariota Tannehill
RB: CJAnderson/Gurley/Gore/Jonathan Williams/Sims/Devontae Booker/Elijah Hood/Elijah McGuire/Corey Clement
WR: ABrown/Evans/Diggs/SShephard/Malcom Mitchell/Braxton Miller/TAustin/Ishmael Zamora
TE: KRudolph/Austin Hooper/VMcDonald/Gerald Everett


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