2017 Season Discussion

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citsalp1
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Re: 2017 Season Discussion

Postby citsalp1 » Tue Dec 05, 2017 6:07 pm

monkeybones wrote: Tue Dec 05, 2017 5:22 am
citsalp1 wrote: Mon Dec 04, 2017 9:39 pm
monkeybones wrote: Mon Dec 04, 2017 6:30 pm

Based on overall points I have one of the worst 6 teams in the league but I was able to get 6 wins. I had no shot at the WC spot because it’s based on overall points but I also won’t get to compete for the top pick because overal record is used to seed playoff teams. How is that fair? How does that “mirror” what the NFL does?

It should be overall points for everything or nothing. Doing it this way “rewards” the highest scoring team but punishes my team for doing nothing other than facing teams on their off weeks.
I'm not sure what your missing here, the division race is due to record, the W/C is due to points. That and your team sucks anyway, you of all people shouldn't be bitching 30k for Tyrod Taylor.... :wave:
Are you seriously that short sighted? Record doesn’t only determine the division race. It also determines the seeding in the playoffs for next years draft.

Yes, my team sucks and I don’t get to play for the #1 pick because of my record. I also don’t get to play for the championship because of my overall points.

If we used points to determine the playoff seeding I’d be in the bottom group and have a chance at the top pick. If we used record I’d be playing for a championship. Instead, I get neither because we use this hybrid system. The fact that you don’t see this as a major problem is concerning.
I don't think the draft works like that, no way Howings get's a higher draft slot than you...If I'm wrong I see your point, and apologize. I thought if you made the playoffs, throw out your record, because you a top 6 team, so that would change his draft slot????

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Re: 2017 Season Discussion

Postby citsalp1 » Tue Dec 05, 2017 6:14 pm

Dre wrote: Tue Dec 05, 2017 2:54 pm I'm pretty disappointed not to make the playoffs but that's fantasy. With Wentz/Zeke/Fournette/Doctson and a bucket load of draft picks I should be in contention for years to come

Good luck to all the playoff teams
Yeah you gonna be around awhile, the AFC was just on fire this year.

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Re: 2017 Season Discussion

Postby monkeybones » Tue Dec 05, 2017 10:17 pm

citsalp1 wrote: Tue Dec 05, 2017 6:07 pm
monkeybones wrote: Tue Dec 05, 2017 5:22 am
citsalp1 wrote: Mon Dec 04, 2017 9:39 pm

I'm not sure what your missing here, the division race is due to record, the W/C is due to points. That and your team sucks anyway, you of all people shouldn't be bitching 30k for Tyrod Taylor.... :wave:
Are you seriously that short sighted? Record doesn’t only determine the division race. It also determines the seeding in the playoffs for next years draft.

Yes, my team sucks and I don’t get to play for the #1 pick because of my record. I also don’t get to play for the championship because of my overall points.

If we used points to determine the playoff seeding I’d be in the bottom group and have a chance at the top pick. If we used record I’d be playing for a championship. Instead, I get neither because we use this hybrid system. The fact that you don’t see this as a major problem is concerning.
I don't think the draft works like that, no way Howings get's a higher draft slot than you...If I'm wrong I see your point, and apologize. I thought if you made the playoffs, throw out your record, because you a top 6 team, so that would change his draft slot????
I don’t think I’m exposing this situation well. I’ll try again.

My team is the 3rd lowest scoring team in the league but ended up with a 6-7 record. Since we use points scored to determine the WC I didn’t make the Championship Playoffs. This means I’m one of the 10 teams playing in the non-Championship playoffs. These playoffs are seeded using regular season W-L record, not points scored. Since I ended up with a 6-7 record my team, which scored the 3rd fewest points in the league, doesn’t get to play for picks 1-6. I’m stuck in the bracket playing for picks 7-10.

I am esssentially being punished for having a bad team with a “good” record.

This is a serious problem that needs to be fixed. We cannot use points scored to determine who gets the WC spot and W-L record for seeding the non-championship playoffs. It needs to be one or the other. This hybrid system is seriously flawed and my team is the one hurt by it this year but I’m sure I won’t be the last.

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Re: 2017 Season Discussion

Postby Dre » Tue Dec 05, 2017 11:36 pm

I agree MB, that inconsistency is terrible, it should be one or the other

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Re: 2017 Season Discussion

Postby jimscafs25 » Wed Dec 06, 2017 3:35 am

Points decides only one thing, Wildcard. Everything else we do gets decided by record. Division winners, playoff seeding and draft order. I really don't see the issue here.

The only thing I would tweak is dropping conferences altogether. Just keep the 4 divisions with the 4 division winners making the playoffs, with the top 2 getting byes. Then the 2 highest scoring non division winners get the wildcard.

In terms of draft order, I would just make it one bracket to avoid any more confusion. Give every non playoff team a chance at the first pick. Lets stop rewarding bad teams. You want a high draft pick, build a team good enough to compete.

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Re: 2017 Season Discussion

Postby monkeybones » Wed Dec 06, 2017 5:03 am

jimscafs25 wrote: Wed Dec 06, 2017 3:35 am Points decides only one thing, Wildcard. Everything else we do gets decided by record. Division winners, playoff seeding and draft order. I really don't see the issue here.

The only thing I would tweak is dropping conferences altogether. Just keep the 4 divisions with the 4 division winners making the playoffs, with the top 2 getting byes. Then the 2 highest scoring non division winners get the wildcard.

In terms of draft order, I would just make it one bracket to avoid any more confusion. Give every non playoff team a chance at the first pick. Lets stop rewarding bad teams. You want a high draft pick, build a team good enough to compete.
You don’t see a problem that my team is losing on both ends? I can’t make the Championship playoffs and I can’t play for the top pick. If it was one or the other it would be fine. I’m losing out on both because we are not consistent with our rules.

If you think it’s good for competitive balance to have a team like TDU or MS getting the #1 overall pick then I’m not sure what to say.

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Re: 2017 Season Discussion

Postby jimscafs25 » Wed Dec 06, 2017 5:56 am

monkeybones wrote: Wed Dec 06, 2017 5:03 am
jimscafs25 wrote: Wed Dec 06, 2017 3:35 am Points decides only one thing, Wildcard. Everything else we do gets decided by record. Division winners, playoff seeding and draft order. I really don't see the issue here.

The only thing I would tweak is dropping conferences altogether. Just keep the 4 divisions with the 4 division winners making the playoffs, with the top 2 getting byes. Then the 2 highest scoring non division winners get the wildcard.

In terms of draft order, I would just make it one bracket to avoid any more confusion. Give every non playoff team a chance at the first pick. Lets stop rewarding bad teams. You want a high draft pick, build a team good enough to compete.
You don’t see a problem that my team is losing on both ends? I can’t make the Championship playoffs and I can’t play for the top pick. If it was one or the other it would be fine. I’m losing out on both because we are not consistent with our rules.

If you think it’s good for competitive balance to have a team like TDU or MS getting the #1 overall pick then I’m not sure what to say.
This is the problem. There should only be one focus, getting the best teams into the playoffs. Jockeying for draft position shouldn't even be part of the equation. To be blunt about your team, you weren't good enough to make the playoffs, and thats it. In my proposal above, you could then compete with the rest of the non qualifiers for the top pick.

I see no problem in rewarding owners who put forth competive rosters. Theres no guarantee those teams would win the consolation bracket anyway.

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Re: 2017 Season Discussion

Postby TrueDawg » Wed Dec 06, 2017 3:04 pm

Dre wrote: Tue Dec 05, 2017 2:54 pm I'm pretty disappointed not to make the playoffs but that's fantasy. With Wentz/Zeke/Fournette/Doctson and a bucket load of draft picks I should be in contention for years to come
I'm disappointed too, especially in a weaker NFC. I have top 10 players at every position except RB (including PK and DEF) but I don't have a top 20 RB. I thought Ajayi (who is RB #34) would at least be a low-end RB1 (the trade to Philly hasn't really helped).

But I have a good young core I think...I'll get Tannehill back next year to pair with Goff. I haven't gotten much from my WRs behind AJ Green, but I love Juju's potential going forward...and if Josh Gordon keeps his head screwed on straight my WRs could be lethal. Foreman could end up as the lead back in Houston next year, but my RBs need serious attention.

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Re: 2017 Season Discussion

Postby TrueDawg » Wed Dec 06, 2017 3:25 pm

jimscafs25 wrote: Wed Dec 06, 2017 3:35 am Points decides only one thing, Wildcard. Everything else we do gets decided by record. Division winners, playoff seeding and draft order. I really don't see the issue here.
I still don't like using record for one thing and points for another... it just doesn't make sense to me in a H2H league.
The only thing I would tweak is dropping conferences altogether. Just keep the 4 divisions with the 4 division winners making the playoffs, with the top 2 getting byes. Then the 2 highest scoring non division winners get the wildcard.
I think this is actually a great idea. I like the divisions...the rivalries and stuff it creates (and the layer it adds in terms of making trades with division foes). But getting rid of the conferences would put the two best non-division winners in the playoffs.
In terms of draft order, I would just make it one bracket to avoid any more confusion. Give every non playoff team a chance at the first pick. Lets stop rewarding bad teams. You want a high draft pick, build a team good enough to compete.
I'm open to this... an all-out battle for the #1 pick, but I don't know if 3 weeks is enough and I don't want to go into week 17. And I have concerns that this makes it hard for the worse teams to improve. I get that we're trying to avoid tanking but I think in this scenario, the rich get richer.

Maybe the simplest solution is to seed non-playoff teams by points...although this can still lead to tanking (submitting crappy lineups). MFL keeps track of potential points too (how many points your team COULD have scored). Maybe there's a way to use that (the only way to "tank" with potential points is to just not have good players).

MB, your team scored the 3rd fewest points, but had the 7th fewest potential points. Knick-Knack Paddywhack had the fewest points scored, but the 5th fewest potential points. This means you were especially bad/unlucky setting your lineups this season (or you weren't trying to submit your best lineup... note: this is NOT an accusation).

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Re: 2017 Season Discussion

Postby citsalp1 » Wed Dec 06, 2017 5:13 pm

Hey I'm just happy if I ever have a first round draft pick the rules are fine. There is no way to please everyone, it's impossible. As I also previously mentioned I play in various leagues, and the rules a pretty much the same. I would like to see compensatory picks added....But that's a different subject .

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Re: 2017 Season Discussion

Postby citsalp1 » Wed Dec 06, 2017 5:23 pm

monkeybones wrote: Wed Dec 06, 2017 5:03 am
jimscafs25 wrote: Wed Dec 06, 2017 3:35 am Points decides only one thing, Wildcard. Everything else we do gets decided by record. Division winners, playoff seeding and draft order. I really don't see the issue here.

The only thing I would tweak is dropping conferences altogether. Just keep the 4 divisions with the 4 division winners making the playoffs, with the top 2 getting byes. Then the 2 highest scoring non division winners get the wildcard.

In terms of draft order, I would just make it one bracket to avoid any more confusion. Give every non playoff team a chance at the first pick. Lets stop rewarding bad teams. You want a high draft pick, build a team good enough to compete.
You don’t see a problem that my team is losing on both ends? I can’t make the Championship playoffs and I can’t play for the top pick. If it was one or the other it would be fine. I’m losing out on both because we are not consistent with our rules.

If you think it’s good for competitive balance to have a team like TDU or MS getting the #1 overall pick then I’m not sure what to say.
On what planet do you figure TDU or MS would qualify for the #1 pick? HOW?

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Re: 2017 Season Discussion

Postby jimscafs25 » Wed Dec 06, 2017 6:21 pm

TrueDawg wrote: Wed Dec 06, 2017 3:25 pm
jimscafs25 wrote: Wed Dec 06, 2017 3:35 am Points decides only one thing, Wildcard. Everything else we do gets decided by record. Division winners, playoff seeding and draft order. I really don't see the issue here.
I still don't like using record for one thing and points for another... it just doesn't make sense to me in a H2H league.
The only thing I would tweak is dropping conferences altogether. Just keep the 4 divisions with the 4 division winners making the playoffs, with the top 2 getting byes. Then the 2 highest scoring non division winners get the wildcard.
I think this is actually a great idea. I like the divisions...the rivalries and stuff it creates (and the layer it adds in terms of making trades with division foes). But getting rid of the conferences would put the two best non-division winners in the playoffs.
In terms of draft order, I would just make it one bracket to avoid any more confusion. Give every non playoff team a chance at the first pick. Lets stop rewarding bad teams. You want a high draft pick, build a team good enough to compete.
I'm open to this... an all-out battle for the #1 pick, but I don't know if 3 weeks is enough and I don't want to go into week 17. And I have concerns that this makes it hard for the worse teams to improve. I get that we're trying to avoid tanking but I think in this scenario, the rich get richer.

Maybe the simplest solution is to seed non-playoff teams by points...although this can still lead to tanking (submitting crappy lineups). MFL keeps track of potential points too (how many points your team COULD have scored). Maybe there's a way to use that (the only way to "tank" with potential points is to just not have good players).

MB, your team scored the 3rd fewest points, but had the 7th fewest potential points. Knick-Knack Paddywhack had the fewest points scored, but the 5th fewest potential points. This means you were especially bad/unlucky setting your lineups this season (or you weren't trying to submit your best lineup... note: this is NOT an accusation).
Why not go into week 17? Its not for a championship, just draft order.

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Re: 2017 Season Discussion

Postby TrueDawg » Wed Dec 06, 2017 7:33 pm

jimscafs25 wrote: Wed Dec 06, 2017 6:21 pm Why not go into week 17? Its not for a championship, just draft order.
Cuz if you're playing for the #1 pick, that's just as important to the teams involved as the championship is to those teams.

And the whole reason we don't play week 17 is star players sometimes play sparingly or not at all the final week...and that's not really fair for some fantasy teams to be crippled like that.

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Re: 2017 Season Discussion

Postby monkeybones » Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:30 am

MB, your team scored the 3rd fewest points, but had the 7th fewest potential points. Knick-Knack Paddywhack had the fewest points scored, but the 5th fewest potential points. This means you were especially bad/unlucky setting your lineups this season (or you weren't trying to submit your best lineup... note: this is NOT an accusation).
Poor efficiency is easy when you have no true stars and try to make up for it with depth. I made a choice to try and build through the draft when I took this team over and the guys I signed to be my "starters" this year (Emanuel Sanders, Marvin Jones, etc.) either bombed or were very inconsistent.

If you look at my "All Play" record it's 3rd worst in the league. That means, even though I struggled finding the right match I was able to win more games than I should have. That's great in most leagues. Not this one. In this league, those wins cost me the chance to play for the top pick. That's my problem with the way the rules are setup.
Last edited by monkeybones on Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:47 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 2017 Season Discussion

Postby monkeybones » Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:44 am

jimscafs25 wrote: Wed Dec 06, 2017 6:21 pm
TrueDawg wrote: Wed Dec 06, 2017 3:25 pm
jimscafs25 wrote: Wed Dec 06, 2017 3:35 am Points decides only one thing, Wildcard. Everything else we do gets decided by record. Division winners, playoff seeding and draft order. I really don't see the issue here.
I still don't like using record for one thing and points for another... it just doesn't make sense to me in a H2H league.
The only thing I would tweak is dropping conferences altogether. Just keep the 4 divisions with the 4 division winners making the playoffs, with the top 2 getting byes. Then the 2 highest scoring non division winners get the wildcard.
I think this is actually a great idea. I like the divisions...the rivalries and stuff it creates (and the layer it adds in terms of making trades with division foes). But getting rid of the conferences would put the two best non-division winners in the playoffs.
In terms of draft order, I would just make it one bracket to avoid any more confusion. Give every non playoff team a chance at the first pick. Lets stop rewarding bad teams. You want a high draft pick, build a team good enough to compete.
I'm open to this... an all-out battle for the #1 pick, but I don't know if 3 weeks is enough and I don't want to go into week 17. And I have concerns that this makes it hard for the worse teams to improve. I get that we're trying to avoid tanking but I think in this scenario, the rich get richer.

Maybe the simplest solution is to seed non-playoff teams by points...although this can still lead to tanking (submitting crappy lineups). MFL keeps track of potential points too (how many points your team COULD have scored). Maybe there's a way to use that (the only way to "tank" with potential points is to just not have good players).

MB, your team scored the 3rd fewest points, but had the 7th fewest potential points. Knick-Knack Paddywhack had the fewest points scored, but the 5th fewest potential points. This means you were especially bad/unlucky setting your lineups this season (or you weren't trying to submit your best lineup... note: this is NOT an accusation).
Why not go into week 17? Its not for a championship, just draft order.
Draft order is hugely important to rebuilding teams. That's my whole issue.


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