Navarro Bowman, done?

General discussion and team advice concerning IDP Leagues.
User avatar
dawgs4life
Captain
Captain
Posts: 935
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2013 8:51 pm

Navarro Bowman, done?

Postby dawgs4life » Fri Jun 16, 2017 2:45 pm

I know he may have been discussed a bit in the camp battles thread....but I wanted to start his own thread.
So is he done? Does SF really cut him? And if not will be really be a back up?
I know he is still owed a huge some of money and cutting him they would take a huge cap hit.
What u guys think?

User avatar
lukkynumber13
GOAT
GOAT
Posts: 13531
Joined: Fri May 20, 2016 2:41 pm

Re: Navarro Bowman, done?

Postby lukkynumber13 » Fri Jun 16, 2017 2:57 pm

No way he's a backup. Either he's a starter or he gets cut.

Now, if he's a starter he may still be washed up. Some speculate that.
TEAM A - 12T (22 R/U, 20 R/U, 19 R/U, 18 Champ, 17 R/U)
HERBERT, Baker
BIJAN/KAMARA/MIXON, A Jones
HILL/AJB/DK/G WILSON/D Adams, Pittman, Z Flowers, Evans
KITTLE
/
TEAM B - 16T, SF, TEP (22 R/U)
HURTS/MINSHEW, Cousins, D Jones
JT/JACOBS, Mostert, Gus E
HILL/MCLAURIN/DEEBO
KELCE/KITTLE, LaPorta
/
TEAM C - 14T, SF (Joined in 22)
GENO
HENRY/A JONES, Gus E
HILL/DIGGS/K ALLEN
WALLER
/
TEAM D - 14T, 1QB (Joined in 22)
MAHOMES, Goff
BIJAN/BREECE/POLLARD
CHASE/DIGGS/G WILSON/AIYUK, DJM, Pittman
KITTLE, Goedert
/
TEAM E - 14T, SF, 2TE (Started in 22)
MAHOMES/T-LAW, Carr
BIJAN/CMC/SAQUON/POLLARD, Hall
HILL/AIYUK/EVANS/GODWIN, Hollywood, Thielen
MCBRIDE/ENGRAM, Goedert, Chig
/
TEAM F - 16T (Joined in 23)
R WILSON, Minshew
SAQUON/KAMARA/MIXON, Monty
DIGGS/GODWIN/AIYUK/EVANS, Thielen, A Cooper
KELCE, Schultz
/
TEAM G - 12T, SF & TEP (Joined in 23)
HERBERT/TUA, Kyler
BIJAN/MIXON, Spears, J Warren
JJ/G WILSON/WADDLE/OLAVE, Godwin, J Reed
LAPORTA

Space Cowboy
Degenerate
Degenerate
Posts: 8831
Joined: Thu May 26, 2011 1:47 pm

Re: Navarro Bowman, done?

Postby Space Cowboy » Fri Jun 16, 2017 2:58 pm

He can't play in space anymore. Sad. He was on his way to be Ray Lewis esq.

User avatar
dawgs4life
Captain
Captain
Posts: 935
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2013 8:51 pm

Re: Navarro Bowman, done?

Postby dawgs4life » Fri Jun 16, 2017 3:05 pm

I have a trade offer up with me receiving him....trying to get a feel if he will still be a useful IDP player either with SF or with another team if he gets cut. Now I know on another team it will depend which one.
Will he continue to be a 3 down player, and possibly a top 20 LB?
I only play in 16x53 with 10+ taxi size leagues with full IDP. All are PPR and most value return yardage. So my opinions may be skewed To these deep roster leagues.

Dynasty Fantasy is not a game, it’s a full time hobby.

Space Cowboy
Degenerate
Degenerate
Posts: 8831
Joined: Thu May 26, 2011 1:47 pm

Re: Navarro Bowman, done?

Postby Space Cowboy » Fri Jun 16, 2017 3:19 pm

dawgs4life wrote: Fri Jun 16, 2017 3:05 pm I have a trade offer up with me receiving him....trying to get a feel if he will still be a useful IDP player either with SF or with another team if he gets cut. Now I know on another team it will depend which one.
Will he continue to be a 3 down player, and possibly a top 20 LB?
LBs tend to fall off cliffs and unfortunately injuries have done Bowman in. I'm a 49er fan, he doesn't have it anymore.

User avatar
Oslo Oildrillers
Practice Squad
Practice Squad
Posts: 182
Joined: Sun May 18, 2014 3:16 am

Re: Navarro Bowman, done?

Postby Oslo Oildrillers » Fri Jun 16, 2017 4:01 pm

Space Cowboy wrote: Fri Jun 16, 2017 3:19 pm
dawgs4life wrote: Fri Jun 16, 2017 3:05 pm I have a trade offer up with me receiving him....trying to get a feel if he will still be a useful IDP player either with SF or with another team if he gets cut. Now I know on another team it will depend which one.
Will he continue to be a 3 down player, and possibly a top 20 LB?
LBs tend to fall off cliffs and unfortunately injuries have done Bowman in. I'm a 49er fan, he doesn't have it anymore.
Yeah, I agree with all this. If he doesn't have the same movement skills then he's not the same football player any longer and we need to view him in a new light. I would be very careful in acquiring him and would love to sell him at current market value if there is a buyer who dares to dive in.

Edit: I just checked DLF rankings and they have Bowman at LB9 ahead of Lavonte David. If that's a trade possibility I'd crush my keyboard hitting accept. I think it's hard to find a buyer though.

User avatar
Oslo Oildrillers
Practice Squad
Practice Squad
Posts: 182
Joined: Sun May 18, 2014 3:16 am

Re: Navarro Bowman, done?

Postby Oslo Oildrillers » Fri Jun 16, 2017 11:21 pm

I only own Bowman in one league so I threw out some offers yesterday to check if anyone still had him as a borderline LB1:

Mark Barron - Rejected, but he countered with an offer of Barron for Nkemdiche and an '18 6th. So in other words he values Bowman less than Nkemdiche and a future 6th.
Jarrad Davis - "Thanks for the offer, but not even tempted."
Christian Kirksey - "Thanks for the offer but will pasd (sic)"
Zach Brown - "the injuries are a bit scary, plus with the 49ers drafting Foster, there is uncertainty as well... let me see if I can counter". He countered with Jerrell Freeman and Chris Conte for Bowman.

If you can't get a dyno LB2 or upside young LB3 then I'd rather hold Bowman and see if he can still be a productive IDP or if the narrative surrounding him can become more positive at some point later in the offseason. Right now his value seems to be sinking fast.

User avatar
lukkynumber13
GOAT
GOAT
Posts: 13531
Joined: Fri May 20, 2016 2:41 pm

Re: Navarro Bowman, done?

Postby lukkynumber13 » Fri Jun 16, 2017 11:51 pm

Oslo Oildrillers wrote: Fri Jun 16, 2017 11:21 pm I only own Bowman in one league so I threw out some offers yesterday to check if anyone still had him as a borderline LB1:

Mark Barron - Rejected, but he countered with an offer of Barron for Nkemdiche and an '18 6th. So in other words he values Bowman less than Nkemdiche and a future 6th.
Jarrad Davis - "Thanks for the offer, but not even tempted."
Christian Kirksey - "Thanks for the offer but will pasd (sic)"
Zach Brown - "the injuries are a bit scary, plus with the 49ers drafting Foster, there is uncertainty as well... let me see if I can counter". He countered with Jerrell Freeman and Chris Conte for Bowman.

If you can't get a dyno LB2 or upside young LB3 then I'd rather hold Bowman and see if he can still be a productive IDP or if the narrative surrounding him can become more positive at some point later in the offseason. Right now his value seems to be sinking fast.
Oh man, I'd be really tempted to snag Freeman. Almost same age as Bowman, but still got it!
TEAM A - 12T (22 R/U, 20 R/U, 19 R/U, 18 Champ, 17 R/U)
HERBERT, Baker
BIJAN/KAMARA/MIXON, A Jones
HILL/AJB/DK/G WILSON/D Adams, Pittman, Z Flowers, Evans
KITTLE
/
TEAM B - 16T, SF, TEP (22 R/U)
HURTS/MINSHEW, Cousins, D Jones
JT/JACOBS, Mostert, Gus E
HILL/MCLAURIN/DEEBO
KELCE/KITTLE, LaPorta
/
TEAM C - 14T, SF (Joined in 22)
GENO
HENRY/A JONES, Gus E
HILL/DIGGS/K ALLEN
WALLER
/
TEAM D - 14T, 1QB (Joined in 22)
MAHOMES, Goff
BIJAN/BREECE/POLLARD
CHASE/DIGGS/G WILSON/AIYUK, DJM, Pittman
KITTLE, Goedert
/
TEAM E - 14T, SF, 2TE (Started in 22)
MAHOMES/T-LAW, Carr
BIJAN/CMC/SAQUON/POLLARD, Hall
HILL/AIYUK/EVANS/GODWIN, Hollywood, Thielen
MCBRIDE/ENGRAM, Goedert, Chig
/
TEAM F - 16T (Joined in 23)
R WILSON, Minshew
SAQUON/KAMARA/MIXON, Monty
DIGGS/GODWIN/AIYUK/EVANS, Thielen, A Cooper
KELCE, Schultz
/
TEAM G - 12T, SF & TEP (Joined in 23)
HERBERT/TUA, Kyler
BIJAN/MIXON, Spears, J Warren
JJ/G WILSON/WADDLE/OLAVE, Godwin, J Reed
LAPORTA

User avatar
Oslo Oildrillers
Practice Squad
Practice Squad
Posts: 182
Joined: Sun May 18, 2014 3:16 am

Re: Navarro Bowman, done?

Postby Oslo Oildrillers » Sat Jun 17, 2017 2:28 am

lukkynumber13 wrote: Fri Jun 16, 2017 11:51 pm
Oslo Oildrillers wrote: Fri Jun 16, 2017 11:21 pm I only own Bowman in one league so I threw out some offers yesterday to check if anyone still had him as a borderline LB1:

Mark Barron - Rejected, but he countered with an offer of Barron for Nkemdiche and an '18 6th. So in other words he values Bowman less than Nkemdiche and a future 6th.
Jarrad Davis - "Thanks for the offer, but not even tempted."
Christian Kirksey - "Thanks for the offer but will pasd (sic)"
Zach Brown - "the injuries are a bit scary, plus with the 49ers drafting Foster, there is uncertainty as well... let me see if I can counter". He countered with Jerrell Freeman and Chris Conte for Bowman.

If you can't get a dyno LB2 or upside young LB3 then I'd rather hold Bowman and see if he can still be a productive IDP or if the narrative surrounding him can become more positive at some point later in the offseason. Right now his value seems to be sinking fast.
Oh man, I'd be really tempted to snag Freeman. Almost same age as Bowman, but still got it!
Yeah, it's not a bad offer if I relied on that production and this was my missing piece. I've got a sick IDP roster in this league though so in this instance I chose to take the Barron/Nkemdiche deal and keep Bowman - thinking that even if there is only a 15% chance he returns to being a high end IDP I'm better off reaching for that ceiling:

3DL: Watt, Cameron Jordan, Everson Griffen, Jerry Hughes, Sheldon, Dante Fowler, Mario Edwards, Derek Barnett + some young ones
3LB: Ogletree, Kwon, Barron, Jack, McKinney, Bowman, Ellerbe, Robert Quinn, Zach Cunningham + some young ones
3DB: Berry, Burnett, McDonald, Nelson, Killebrew

:dance:

My take on Bowman is that whether or not he had some instances in OTAs or minicamp where he struggled in coverage...that's not a death sentence. He injured his achilles in October so it isn't realistic to expect him to be 100% in OTAs and minicamp. I'm more worried that he already last season wasn't the same difference maker that he's been in the past, and when you add another injury on top of that the arrow is not pointing in the right direction.

If he's average in coverage then he could perhaps win a starting role as his leadership and effect on the running game carries a lot of on-field value, but if he's a liability in coverage his snaps are going to decline RAPIDLY. One thing is that the modern NFL is a nickel league, but even on early downs it's hard to hide an LB who is poor in coverage as opposing teams will try to isolate and attack by getting RBs in space.

In any case I'm pretty sure they will wait until training camp when Foster and Bowman are both healthy and they can put pads on and let Foster, Smith and Bowman fight it out for those top two LB spots. I feel that we've been given a big hint by them giving Smith that big deal and trading up to draft an LB in the 1st, but I'm not going to take anything for granted. Bowman is a fighter so he for sure has a puncher's chance and we have no guarantees that Foster will adjust quickly to the NFL or how training camp injuries might affect things.

From a cap perspective there's not much of an incentive to cut Bowman this year. They would only be able to allocate $2.6 mill of dead money on this year's cap, the remaining $8.2 mill would count against their 2018 cap. Considering that they can roll over cap space from this year I hardly see any cap incentive to cut him this year if they want to have maximum options for 2018. If they keep him they can designate him as a post June 1 cut next year which would allow them to kick the dead money down the road or they can opt to take the hit in 2018. If they cut him now they have to take the hit in 2018. His 2019 year is cheap with a low base salary so it's only really in 2020 where the contract structure shows that he's a clear cut or restructure candidate.

That being said there is a cash incentive to cut him...his base salary isn't guaranteed any longer so while cutting him will not help their cap space there is a financial incentive to cut him. And if Smith and Foster beat out Bowman they might feel it is the right decision for both Bowman and the team to let him go and let him attempt to continue his career elsewhere. So yeah, it's an incredibly important training camp for Bowman.

User avatar
bruiser
Ring of Fame
Ring of Fame
Posts: 3159
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2015 11:37 am

Re: Navarro Bowman, done?

Postby bruiser » Sat Jun 17, 2017 5:27 am

Oslo, awesome summary, my man! I always look at the cap numbers and dead cap/cap rollover ramifications to give me the clearest picture of what an NFL GM could be thinking. You're the first poster to have brought this up, so props. One thing that I forgot was that they way over-paid Malcolm Smith. Perhaps they think he was miscast in Oakland (leading to poor performance)?
Just a guy who loves fantasy football - specifically defense.

User avatar
Oslo Oildrillers
Practice Squad
Practice Squad
Posts: 182
Joined: Sun May 18, 2014 3:16 am

Re: Navarro Bowman, done?

Postby Oslo Oildrillers » Sat Jun 17, 2017 7:37 am

Bruiser wrote: Sat Jun 17, 2017 5:27 am Oslo, awesome summary, my man! I always look at the cap numbers and dead cap/cap rollover ramifications to give me the clearest picture of what an NFL GM could be thinking. You're the first poster to have brought this up, so props. One thing that I forgot was that they way over-paid Malcolm Smith. Perhaps they think he was miscast in Oakland (leading to poor performance)?
It was certainly an aggressive acquisition so one would have to think that they had a clear role in mind for Malcolm Smith. At that time they didn't know they would be able to land Foster though so it doesn't say for sure that he will get an every down WILL role, but it tells us that they like him quite a bit. He got borderline top 10 4-3 OLB money. Their new DC Saleh was quality control coach in Seattle and worked with Malcolm Smith there for 3 years so I would think that he's had some input in the signing.

I'm really curious to see how this shakes out. Both Malcolm Smith and Ray-Ray Armstrong are very light LBs in the low 220s so they both profile best for WILL which is also seen as Reuben Foster's best fit. Foster is currently in the high 220s but in 2015 he played MIKE at 240 for Alabama. After 2015 Foster dropped down to around 220-225 which seemed to have had a great effect on his game. Foster has stated that he didn't feel dynamic and didn't feel comfortable at 240, so if they move on from Bowman it will be interesting to see if they will start to shape Foster for the MIKE role. It seems to me that the ideal position for Foster is WILL so it would be a shame if they (again) try to shoehorn a player because of need.

Perhaps the most realistic scenario is that they short term end up using Smith and Bowman in base with Foster and Smith in nickel, and that they'll focus on trying to find a new MIKE next offseason. Or they start beefing up Foster to play full time MIKE in 2018 and roll with Smith for a couple more years. Or Bowman regains his claim on the MIKE position and they gradually fade from Smith to Foster at WILL. :think:

User avatar
bruiser
Ring of Fame
Ring of Fame
Posts: 3159
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2015 11:37 am

Re: Navarro Bowman, done?

Postby bruiser » Sat Jun 17, 2017 7:46 am

Yep, agree with those scenarios. Great analysis on their size/fit. As NFL backs are now coming back bigger, I'm shifting my investment strategy toward bigger MIKEs like McKinney for the sake of staying healthy and serviceable. That's a totally unrelated blurb.
Just a guy who loves fantasy football - specifically defense.

User avatar
Oslo Oildrillers
Practice Squad
Practice Squad
Posts: 182
Joined: Sun May 18, 2014 3:16 am

Re: Navarro Bowman, done?

Postby Oslo Oildrillers » Sat Jun 17, 2017 9:33 am

Bruiser wrote: Sat Jun 17, 2017 7:46 am Yep, agree with those scenarios. Great analysis on their size/fit. As NFL backs are now coming back bigger, I'm shifting my investment strategy toward bigger MIKEs like McKinney for the sake of staying healthy and serviceable. That's a totally unrelated blurb.
Yeah, it's going to be fun to see how this all develops, if the LB position becomes more about specialists and not generalists and we'll see more split roles depending on down, distance and formation. I think we might see some quite big differences between different divisions. Most teams build their teams to beat their division opponents so if you're in a nickel/dime heavy division you need to have those athletic cover LBs and dimebackers, and if you're in a run heavy division you need a beefier LB group.

But I think that's probably a good strategy, to start valuing size more in our LBs. And if you find a 240+ LB who can also cover...$$$$$! I know that McKinney has some doubters that don't believe that he is agile enough to play in coverage so we'll see how his role develops, but in any case he is a good blitzer and he's at least decent in coverage so he's not a two down thumper type in my eyes. I own him in plenty leagues and he's already paid back on the investments.

User avatar
bruiser
Ring of Fame
Ring of Fame
Posts: 3159
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2015 11:37 am

Re: Navarro Bowman, done?

Postby bruiser » Sat Jun 17, 2017 9:51 am

Oslo Oildrillers wrote: Sat Jun 17, 2017 9:33 am I know that McKinney has some doubters that don't believe that he is agile enough to play in coverage so we'll see how his role develops, but in any case he is a good blitzer and he's at least decent in coverage so he's not a two down thumper type in my eyes. I own him in plenty leagues and he's already paid back on the investments.
Same, here brother. I love having him plugged in as an auto-start for two of my teams. McKinney came with >50% of analysts saying he'd never be a 3-down 'backer. He barely came off the field last year. I always had him comp'd to David Harris.
Just a guy who loves fantasy football - specifically defense.

Space Cowboy
Degenerate
Degenerate
Posts: 8831
Joined: Thu May 26, 2011 1:47 pm

Re: Navarro Bowman, done?

Postby Space Cowboy » Sat Jun 17, 2017 10:18 am

McKinney could develop into a Hightower type but I wouldn't hold my breathe.


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests