Garrett and Peppers

General discussion and team advice concerning IDP Leagues.
sms
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Garrett and Peppers

Postby sms » Mon Jun 12, 2017 1:12 pm

Where would you select Garrett or Peppers in a 12 team, PPR, full squad IDP with balanced scoring? I would like responses based on NOT knowing the team composition. Requirements are QB, RB, WR, WR, TE, FLEX, FLEX. This is not 2 QB league. The rosters are 45 players with a 4 player taxi squad.

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lukkynumber13
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Re: Garrett and Peppers

Postby lukkynumber13 » Mon Jun 12, 2017 5:19 pm

I would take Garrett in the mid-late 2nd, Peppers in the early to mid 3rd
TEAM A - 12T (22 R/U, 20 R/U, 19 R/U, 18 Champ, 17 R/U)
HERBERT, Baker
BIJAN/KAMARA/MIXON, A Jones
HILL/AJB/DK/G WILSON/D Adams, Pittman, Z Flowers, Evans
KITTLE
/
TEAM B - 16T, SF, TEP (22 R/U)
HURTS/MINSHEW, Cousins, D Jones
JT/JACOBS, Mostert, Gus E
HILL/MCLAURIN/DEEBO
KELCE/KITTLE, LaPorta
/
TEAM C - 14T, SF (Joined in 22)
GENO
HENRY/A JONES, Gus E
HILL/DIGGS/K ALLEN
WALLER
/
TEAM D - 14T, 1QB (Joined in 22)
MAHOMES, Goff
BIJAN/BREECE/POLLARD
CHASE/DIGGS/G WILSON/AIYUK, DJM, Pittman
KITTLE, Goedert
/
TEAM E - 14T, SF, 2TE (Started in 22)
MAHOMES/T-LAW, Carr
BIJAN/CMC/SAQUON/POLLARD, Hall
HILL/AIYUK/EVANS/GODWIN, Hollywood, Thielen
MCBRIDE/ENGRAM, Goedert, Chig
/
TEAM F - 16T (Joined in 23)
R WILSON, Minshew
SAQUON/KAMARA/MIXON, Monty
DIGGS/GODWIN/AIYUK/EVANS, Thielen, A Cooper
KELCE, Schultz
/
TEAM G - 12T, SF & TEP (Joined in 23)
HERBERT/TUA, Kyler
BIJAN/MIXON, Spears, J Warren
JJ/G WILSON/WADDLE/OLAVE, Godwin, J Reed
LAPORTA

sms
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Re: Garrett and Peppers

Postby sms » Mon Jun 12, 2017 5:43 pm

That was the range people liked when the question was posed around the NFL draft. I figured it may have changed a little. I will end up missing out on both because they will probably go much earlier in my league. Thanks for the response.

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bruiser
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Re: Garrett and Peppers

Postby bruiser » Mon Jun 12, 2017 7:10 pm

Garrett is not going until after I select Reuben Foster around 2.10 in three separate rookie drafts this May. Peppers is a DB or S and just got a fresh dose of competition brought in via former 1st rd pick Calvin Pryor. If you told me that Jabrill Peppers was the next Eric Berry, I'd still wait until the 7th round to select him. There is likely never a positional reason to draft DB. Sorry if this does not land.
Just a guy who loves fantasy football - specifically defense.

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Re: Garrett and Peppers

Postby sms » Tue Jun 13, 2017 3:39 am

The reason for Peppers is that the league gives return yards points. Otherwise I would not bother with him. As for Garrett, he makes more sense for my roster than Foster. I already start four of Lavonte, Collins, Kuechely, Telvin Smith, Mosley or Deon Jones. Nonetheless, people in this league take IDP's way early. Last year Bosa was a top four pick. I gauge the value of IDP's here to see if there is a chance one will fall to a draftable spot and also to figure out which offensive players may fall to me. Last year it was Tyler Boyd at 2.07.

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bruiser
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Re: Garrett and Peppers

Postby bruiser » Tue Jun 13, 2017 5:59 am

sms, all my leagues are return yardage leagues, so I get it. You'd have to tell me that Peppers is gonna outscore the other startable DBs by more than 10 PPG before I'd say, "oh, using a draft pick on him makes sense." I don't know your format, but I can only imagine that there are quality starters sitting on waivers. Save your draft picks for the higher ceiling, even if the pick busts out.

My whole premise is to take winning shots. Every sport has an analytic strategy at maximizing your 'chance' to win. In basketball this has now become the three point shot. In football, going for two is a better play. In dyno rookie drafts, you're limiting your ceiling to draft certain positions that can be filled the day of games. Take winning shots. You nevery know which 4th, 5th, 6th round rookie will develop into Tyreek, Diggs, Crowder, Lockett, Antonio Brown, etc. You could buy so much more than DB1 with that kind of currency. Even if you're lucky enough to hit on Peppers as the DB1, his value at DB1 is much lower than all of the above mentioned players.
Just a guy who loves fantasy football - specifically defense.

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Re: Garrett and Peppers

Postby FiremanEd » Tue Jun 13, 2017 7:17 am

I'm on the 'draft Peppers in return league' side of things. I'm not passing on a guy who can be a top 5 DB for a pipe dream. His combination of defensive opportunity, confirmed Special Teams role, and potential Offensive plays, make him a unique player, DB or otherwise. Production matters and people will want him if it happens (he will make Sport highlights because Special Teams do and his name recognition from college), at which point you can sell him for higher capital and get a better shot at hitting on the next 'sleeper' if you do covet.

I'm not saying go crazy for Peppers, rather am just saying that he's unique in his potential and an exception in my books to the 'don't draft a DB' approach, which I am generally in support of. Exceptions to every 'rule'.

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Oslo Oildrillers
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Re: Garrett and Peppers

Postby Oslo Oildrillers » Tue Jun 13, 2017 7:27 am

Yeah, but you're neglecting to mention that those 4th-6th round WRs and RBs have a very poor hit rate in terms of becoming startable players. If they hit you just got a free 1st round rookie pick in the 4th round, but for every Tyreek Hill there are 20-30 offensive players that clog your roster for a year or two before you dump them so you have to evaluate that up against what level of IDP players are available to you at that point in the draft.

It can often be a bit of revisionist history involved with these players. Tyreek Hill wasn't drafted in most leagues, he was more of a waiver guy that got picked up later when he started to create buzz. Diggs, Crowder and Lockett were all in that range, but if you jump back a year or two and read through the rookie drafts there's a lot of ugly in those later rounds - guys that didn't play a snap in the NFL. Whether or not going offense or defense is the right move depends on scoring setup, position requirements, team needs and there are league specific factors that should cause you to alter strategy. Some leagues are much more offense-aggressive than others which will allow really good defensive players to fall so if your setup values defensive players, but the other owners don't, there's a pretty open opportunity to improve your roster quickly.

Based on sms' nuggets it would seem that defensive scoring is elevated in his league. I'm in some leagues where DBs score 2 pts per solo and LBs score 1.5 pts per solo and you're starting 3 DBs every week. Players like Mark Barron, Deone Bucannon and Reshad Jones were league winners a couple years ago with that type of setup as they gave a significant weekly advantage over teams that did not have high end DBs. I had a couple teams with two or three of those guys. In one league where I had Barron, Bucannon, Jones and Jenkins I ended up with 821 pts from the DB position weeks 1-16. The league average was 521 pts so I had on average a 19 pts weekly advantage from my DBs(!!).

Peppers has a chance to get that type of in-the-box role so I think for sure that he's a draftable player, but where you target him depends on league setup and tendencies. And if you draft him you should realise that you're doing it to improve your team's production piece by piece, not to get a heavily wanted trade commodity that is going to significantly alter the course of your franchise.

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Re: Garrett and Peppers

Postby bruiser » Tue Jun 13, 2017 12:49 pm

Fair enough. I'm not in weighted leagues, and maybe I have an eye for mid-round WRs that can't be expected of everyone. :D

I'll cede to the communal wisdom here that I don't know the poster's format, and Peppers is a for sure top DB. He will need to become one to justify not taking winning shots on the most valuable sectors. It's typically pretty easy to stock up on free shares of starting DBs that have proven they play a full share of snaps.
Just a guy who loves fantasy football - specifically defense.

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Oslo Oildrillers
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Re: Garrett and Peppers

Postby Oslo Oildrillers » Wed Jun 14, 2017 4:46 am

Bruiser wrote: Tue Jun 13, 2017 12:49 pm Fair enough. I'm not in weighted leagues, and maybe I have an eye for mid-round WRs that can't be expected of everyone. :D

I'll cede to the communal wisdom here that I don't know the poster's format, and Peppers is a for sure top DB. He will need to become one to justify not taking winning shots on the most valuable sectors. It's typically pretty easy to stock up on free shares of starting DBs that have proven they play a full share of snaps.
Haha, yeah. And maybe my view on things are coloured by my recent history of landing impact IDPs in mid/late rounds; like Danielle Hunter, Kwon Alexander, Benardrick McKinney and Keanu Neal in recent years. But I guess we can agree that a good strategy is to draft to your expertise and interest. I typically use 1st and 2nd round draft picks and trades to strengthen my offense and I kind of neglect mid/late round offensive players unless there is a player I really fall in love with, like Crowell a few years ago. But that's just how I like to play FF, it doesn't mean it's right for everyone.

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Re: Garrett and Peppers

Postby Space Cowboy » Wed Jun 14, 2017 9:39 am

Is Peppers for sure even gonna return kicks? He's one of their few assets, maybe they play it safe with him. Only safety I can ever think of who returned punts/kicks was Ed Reed and that didn't last all that long.

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Re: Garrett and Peppers

Postby bruiser » Wed Jun 14, 2017 10:35 am

Quinton Demps and Micah Hyde are two more recent ones. They were not top IDPs.
Just a guy who loves fantasy football - specifically defense.

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Re: Garrett and Peppers

Postby FiremanEd » Wed Jun 14, 2017 1:32 pm

Coaching staff if I recall correctly has stated he will return kicks, as well as have a few offensive plays (obviously an extreme few that are barely worth mentioning...but still). Watching him with the ball it obviously makes sense to have him do it. They want to get the ball in the hands of their playmakers and see what they have, 1st round pick or not. He's not a proven stud on D to protect quite yet (probably never) to where you'd actually want to 'protect' him. Heck, AB returns punts...

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Re: Garrett and Peppers

Postby Dyno_7 » Mon Jun 19, 2017 7:37 pm

Both will very likely be drafted in the 2nd round in my league. Bosa was drafted in the 2nd round last year and people will want to get an early jump on Garrett thinking he'll be Bosa II. Peppers will go in the early 2nd round too because I live in Michigan and half my league are wolverine fans... :roll:

I have 2 third round picks though, so I sure as heck won't mind them being overdrafted. :thumbup:
TEAMS 1&2: 10tm. Non-PPR +IDP.
Starters: 1QB-2RB-3WR-1TE-1K-2DL-1EDR-3LB-3DB

TEAM 1:
QB: C.Wentz, P.Rivers, J.Rosen, L.Jackson.
RB: J.Mixon, L.Fournette, J.Howard, D.Williams
WR: O.BeckhamJr, M.Thomas, S.Diggs, J.Smith-Schuster, S.Watkins, C.Godwin, C.Sutton.
TE: Z.Ertz, M.Gesicki, G.Kittle.
DL: D.Hunter, D.Barnett, C.Jones.
EDR: H.Landry.
LB: M.Jack, Z.Cunningham, A.Williamson, L.Vander Esch, C.Littleton.
DB: R.Jones, B.McDougald, S.Williams.

TEAM 2:
QB: D.Watson.
RB: D.Cook, A.Kamara, J.Mixon, C.Hyde, N.Chubb, A.Jones.
WR: A.Cooper, M.Thomas, J.Smith-Schuster, J.Gordon, M.Williams, K.Golladay, C.Godwin, C.Kirk.
TE: E.Engram, D.Njoku, D.Goedert.
DL: K.Mack, D.Hunter, D.Ware
EDR: V.Miller
LB: T.Smith, M.Jack, D.Jones, Z.Cunningham, T.Edmunds, L.Vander Esch.
DB: B.Baker, D.James, C.Geathers.

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Re: Garrett and Peppers

Postby IR1 » Wed Jun 21, 2017 5:48 am

Took Peppers late 2nd round(my 4th pick overall). League is heavy on idp value- Garrett was 1.01(didn't agree with that but it worked out as I got Davis at 1.06). As someone above said, IF he becomes a stud, I can trade him for even more later(traded Collins for Nuk this past off season). As much as I try to stay bpa, the way the league values players comes into play.
10Team PPR-QB/RB/WR/WR/TE/PK/flex-DT/DE/DE/LB/LB/LB/CB/CB/S/S/flex
QB- Herbert, Tua
RB- Barkley, Swift, Montgomery, Dobbins, Walker
WR-Adams, ARSB, JWilliams, Godwin, Metcalf, Allen, Kirk, Flowers
TE- Kelce, Goedert
PK
DT- Buckner, Simmons, QWilliams,
DE- Hunter, JBosa, Thibodeaux, JPHillips, Rousseau, Paye, Greenard
LB- Edmunds, Warner, E Kendricks, Wagner, De"Vondre Campbell, Asamoah, Sanders
CB- Moore, Howard, Reed
S- Dugger, Pitre, Thompson
IR Dobbins, Dulcich
Taxi- Kincaid, QJohnston


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