Camp Battles - Linebackers

[FiremanEd]

Ray-Ray won't hold off Foster long even if he gets the lead early on. Foster is simply a better player. Was a matter of time before Foster became lead dog regardless of who is ahead of him, just any buy potential was lost. Foster is an alpha. Only health will hold him back.

[Oslo Oildrillers]

Foster got all first team reps today, but Saleh said that Ray-Ray would continue to get 1st team snaps as well. In any case things seem to be moving in the right direction for Foster and they seem to be really happy with how he is picking things up and attacking the challenge. He's still making mistakes but that's to be expected at this stage and he's going to need reps to improve. Saleh said they were not yet sure who to start in the first preseason game.

[bruiser]

Ray-Ray was originally a safety and he's likely the better/safer option in coverage at this stage. Ray-Ray is now on the 1st team while Foster is playing with the second team. One outcome could also be that Ray-Ray and Foster platoon the position, with Foster playing base, so now is probably more of a sell-high opportunity on Foster than a good time to go out and chase Foster.

At the rate Foster has been intercepting and housing passes in camp, I think it's safe to say he has cover skills worth noting. There is no evidence (so far) that he is in any way a liability on 3rd down. I think he's always been John Lynch's 3-down WLB, but the coach-speak is "we're making him work from the bottom up; we won't insult our backups by giving him the job on the first day of camp."

Of course, Foster owners are elated that his medicals checked out and that their asset has appreciated since May rookie drafts. Surely, his price is now high for anyone looking to buy. As an owner of two Foster shares, I am holding with a tight grip to the odds-on favorite for DROY.

[berserkers]

That's the kind of stuff I pay to read... thanks.

I agree. Thanks Oslo!

[Slevin Kelevra]

A couple of Depth Charts released today

RAIDERS
sam - Bruce Irvin
mike - Marquel Lee
will - Cory James

SAINTS
sam - AJ Klein
mike - Manti Te'o
will - Craig Robertson

[bruiser]

A couple of Depth Charts released today

RAIDERS
sam - Bruce Irvin
mike - Marquel Lee
will - Cory James

SAINTS
sam - AJ Klein
mike - Manti Te'o
will - Craig Robertson

Use with caution. Raiders tried this last year until they were the 30th defense in the league (around Week 10). After they abandoned this alignment, they became the unit we expected them to be.

Also, AJ Klein as the signal-caller is most important here. Use pre-season depth charts with caution.

[Oslo Oildrillers]

At the rate Foster has been intercepting and housing passes in camp, I think it's safe to say he has cover skills worth noting. There is no evidence (so far) that he is in any way a liability on 3rd down. I think he's always been John Lynch's 3-down WLB, but the coach-speak is "we're making him work from the bottom up; we won't insult our backups by giving him the job on the first day of camp."

Of course, Foster owners are elated that his medicals checked out and that their asset has appreciated since May rookie drafts. Surely, his price is now high for anyone looking to buy. As an owner of two Foster shares, I am holding with a tight grip to the odds-on favorite for DROY.

Training camp interceptions aren't a very reliable way of judging a player's ability in coverage, they are quite random and most commonly a result of QB/receiver miscommunication. It's a positive play but it should account for a very small part of the evaluation, even if beat writers love to focus on them. Foster didn't have a single interception throughout his entire college career so it's not like INTs have been a huge part of his game. That being said Foster profiles as a good coverage LB based on what he showed in college, particularly after he dropped weight, so it's not like I view him as a two down thumper kind of guy. He can and should become an NFL three down LB.

But...my point is simply that most seem to be viewing this situation as if Foster is a lock for a three down role from day one now with Smith injured when I think there is perhaps a 15% chance that it doesn't happen this year. We've seen plenty of LBs (and all positions really) come into the league and unexpectedly struggle to transition so I'd like to see it, or at least see more confidence from the coaching staff in handing him responsibilities, before I take it for granted. Jarrad Davis has been handled differently, he was handed an every down MIKE role from day one, so I'm much more confident in what his role will be. I'd for sure put my money on Foster winning that three down WILL role, but give me good enough odds and I'll take the field.

[FiremanEd]

Can't help but think there is over-thinking occurring. If Foster isn't the 3-down from Day 1, does it really matter? I may just be missing what the debate is, but don't want to think that people are potentially passing on Foster because of any sort of early season role restrictions. If this is just a 'here is how I read the tea leaves' in an over the top analysis than fine, but not as some long term projection based on a few early season items. Seems like analysis paralysis.

[Slevin Kelevra]

More Depth Charts

REDSKINS
Foster, Compton starters
Zach Brown listed on the bench

49ers
Foster starter

[Oslo Oildrillers]

Can't help but think there is over-thinking occurring. If Foster isn't the 3-down from Day 1, does it really matter? I may just be missing what the debate is, but don't want to think that people are potentially passing on Foster because of any sort of early season role restrictions. If this is just a 'here is how I read the tea leaves' in an over the top analysis than fine, but not as some long term projection based on a few early season items. Seems like analysis paralysis.

Well, as with most FF discussions it is relative to price. Foster was already being drafted in pretty much the same range as Jarrad Davis while Malcolm Smith was still healthy so I can only assume that it would take a devil's ransom to trade for him now and that one has to be very aggressive to get him in rookie drafts. I'm in a rookie draft now where he went as the first IDP off the board - before both Garrett and Davis. For someone that was playing behind Malcolm Smith and is now sharing first team snaps with Ray-Ray I find that a little aggressive, but I'm all for going out and getting the players you believe in - I just find Davis a safer choice at this point in time. If I spend a second round rookie pick on an LB I want him to come flying out of the gates with a big role from day one, even in dynasty leagues. For the record I own both Davis, Foster and Garrett on my teams and I'm excited for them all.

[bruiser]

Yeah, Oslo, I'm on board with all of that. 85% chance he is week 1, 3D backer is pretty good for me since I got him in the 23-26 range. I wouldn't own any shares of Foster if his range was 13-17 (as Davis was). Price is just as important as opportunity, so we definitely are in agreement. I totally get what you're saying about the 15% risk of holding the door open for Ray-Ray at Reuben's current price. Assuming Davis is now same price or cheaper, I would advocate buying him just the same.

I'll throw this in: I really like coming to this forum and recognizing that IDPers are plugged into opportunity so well. I go over to other sub-forums on this site and see serious analytics at work and paper arguments about talent and metrics, etc. I am a strategist about my rosters and spend far less time than others doing player evaluations. The only guys I want on my gameday roster is a guy with a role (preferably heavy usage). Beyond that, I can't tell you how many tackles my players miss. I evaluate snap counts and let them speak to the players' ability... availability.

[Oslo Oildrillers]

Redskins - Compton ILB, Foster ILB. Zach Brown and Spaight are running with the 2nd team, but I wouldn't necessarily read too much into that. If you own Zach Brown you'd obviously like him to come right in and take charge, but it's quite natural that the returning starters are given some rope at the start of TC. Brown's talent should shine through before too long and the reports are that it would be on Foster's expense.

I've started seeing reports that Zach Brown is getting first team snaps playing with Compton the last couple days. Foster and Compton are still playing nickel but Brown has at least started to ascend and it is Foster who is starting to lose snaps.

In yesterday's game simulation practice Mason Foster was back in the starting base lineup with Compton, so reports of Zach Brown being a starter already might be a little ahead of where things currently stand. Zach Brown mixed in, but it seems the expectation should be that Foster will be starting in the first preseason game. Nothing big, I think most of us still expect Brown to ascend, but I found it an interesting little note about where the battle for ILB currently stand. Brown still has some steps to make.

[Oslo Oildrillers]

Keep an eye out for Jayon Brown in Tennessee. Avery Williamson is their MIKE starter and play-caller with Wesley Woodyard as the weakside linebacker. Neither one of them is particularly good in coverage whereas Jayon Brown is a specialist sub-package linebacker. Mularkey has talked him up in his last three press conferences and he seems to be picking up things fast and having a good camp, he even got some first team nickel snaps in their Saturday scrimmage.

Right now I'd say that Brown is in a competition with Daren Bates for the number two WILL spot. Avery is their LB building block and tone-setter, and Jayon is too light to play MIKE anyways, but I think there is a chance that Jayon Brown can beat out Woodyard for starting WILL if he continues to develop at this rate. His foot in the door will surely be in sub-packages, but it will be interesting to see if he can develop into a full time player. The knock on him as an NFL prospect was that he was too undersized to play WILL in the NFL, but he's about 15 pounds heavier than Bucannon and Telvin Smith and they seem to have done alright... Here are some bits from Mularkey's press conference yesterday:

(on if anyone has emerged at the linebacker position after Avery Williamson)

I think Jayon (Brown) has climbed up the ladder. He certainly has been very impressive. Every opportunity he's gotten to show what he's capable of doing, he's done it. Avery (Williamson) has come back. Avery's stronger, Avery's faster, he looks like a different player in regards to the way he's reacting in the run game. He's had a very good camp.

(on if linebacker Avery Williamson is focusing on a new contract)

Avery's (Williamson) not that worried about his contract here. Avery wants to get better every time he steps on the field. I don't think that plays into it at all.

(on if linebacker Avery Williamson is a part of the problem with opponents’ tight ends)

No. I think he's gotten better. Obviously that's what you come out here for—to try to improve on what we're doing. And that was one of the things he knew he needed to improve on—his coverage. Like I said, he is faster than he's been since he's been here. He has worked his tail off to do that and I think he's done a better job covering in this camp than he has in the past.

(on other players that can help in coverage)

Yeah. I think Jayon (Brown) again, has the ability. With his athletic ability, his speed, very smart. Again, you have a lot going on when you have that first group and you've got to know a lot of things. Jayon has done well for a rookie.

(on if he would call rookie linebacker Jayon Brown the lead nickelbacker)

No, I wouldn't. I think they're all running pretty close together. I think they're pretty consistent in what they're doing.

(on who the next best player is in that nickel linebacker position)

Again, another guy—veteran—Wesley Woodyard's got a pretty darn good camp as well in there. We're pretty fortunate, we've got some guys in there that can play.

[boobam13]

after the first few preseason games, is there anyone who jumped out at you?

[Oslo Oildrillers]

I haven't watched all the games, and I've mostly just watched the first quarters, but for me there were a few things to note:

- WAS started with Compton at MIKE and Foster at WILL, then they inserted Brown at WILL for the second rotation, and in the third rotation they played Brown at MIKE and Foster at WILL. So at this point in time I think we can safely say that Compton and Foster are the current starters, but they seem open to any outcome the way they are testing different combinations. I also have to say that I thought Zach Brown looked really good - he looks fast and physical out there.

- I focused on Zach Cunningham a lot in the HOU game. He played every snap until there was a minute left of the third quarter, as McKinney was out with a small injury and they clearly wanted to give Cunningham a ton of reps. PFF graded him highly and he's generally gotten good reviews, but I'm not sure if I saw the same. I thought he got washed out very easily in the running game, particularly when going against starters in the 1st quarter. He looked small and was hardly able to get near the ball in the 1st quarter. I thought his tackling technique and angles were a bit off, and he got beat three times to the sideline by RBs and QBs. He looked fluid and good in coverage, and I think all the reps is a sign of how HOU want him to develop quickly, which is a great sign, but I wonder if he'll need to put on some weight before he can be strong enough to feature in the running game. It is the first preseason game so I should give him some slack, but I saw what I saw.

- Clowney played a lot of OLB and Beasley played SAM when Riley didn't play (they started out with their constellation from last year before bringing Riley in and moving Campbell to SAM after a few downs), so any hope of Clowney or Beasley getting DE designations for this season can probably be put to rest.

- The first Saints LB rotation was Klein at SAM, Te'o at MIKE and Robertson at WILL, with Klein and Robertson playing in the nickel. They kept this constellation for a few series until they went with their second rotation which was Stupar at SAM, Te'o at MIKE and Anzalone at WILL, with Te'o and Anzalone in nickel. I assume they kept Te'o on the field in order to see him in nickel. In their third rotation they substituted Te'o with Anthony at MIKE, using Anthony and Anzalone in nickel. Anthony got a sack, which got some people excited on twitter, but a stunt sack is hardly a good indicator of Anthony's potential rise on the depth chart... It's flashy but it's much more indicative how he was clearly behind Te'o at MIKE and that they prefer both Robertson and Anzalone at WILL. What happened to Anthony just focusing on playing WILL which they communicated just a couple weeks ago? Klein looks like a sure thing, and Robertson looks like he can be a really good value if he can hang on to his three down role, but I would say that keeping Te'o and Anzalone at the end of the roster isn't the dumbest idea.

- With McMillan tearing his ACL any potential doubts about Timmons role in nickel can be put away. He's going to play.