Petition Rotoworld/MFL For an EDGE Position IDP

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ChocolateCityCurse
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Petition Rotoworld/MFL For an EDGE Position IDP

Postby ChocolateCityCurse » Mon May 08, 2017 2:19 pm

Would it be possible to start some sort of petition backed by DLF asking MFL / Rotoworld to create new positional designations on D:
1 – an EDGE position (OLB/DE eligible)
2 – an Interior D-Line position (DT/3-4DE eligible)
This would improve the IDP Game forevaaa eva..
Who's with me?
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Re: Petition Rotoworld/MFL For an EDGE Position IDP

Postby IDPAuthority » Mon May 08, 2017 3:00 pm

Seconded! I brought this up in my league, but difficult to add from an administrative perspective.

The one question I had was whether there was a major difference in tackles between the 3-4 OLBs and 4-3 DEs? Haven't taken the time to look much further into this.
Orphaned team before 2017 draft
12 team full PPR/balanced IDP scoring/ salary
Start QB,RB,2WR,TE,3WR/RB/TE,K,3DL,3LB,3DB,2DL/LB/DB(40 active)
QB: Stafford, Siemien, Kaepernick
RB: D Murray, Riddick, Powell, Gilislee, D Lewis, Hunt, McNichols
WR: Adams, Coleman, Beasley, Funchess, A Ellington, M Wheaton, C Henderson, Taywan Taylor, I Ford, Zamora
TE: L Green, Fleener, J Smith
K: Gonzalez
DL: Atkins, Dareus, Tuitt, Armstead, A Hicks, Lawson, Jon Allen, McDowell
LB: J Brown, J Hicks, Burfict, Ray, Thompson, J Jenkins, Ford, Beckwith, D Riley, B Brown, Reeves-Maybin
DB: Geathers, Reid, B Jones, Pryor, Maye, Harvey-Clemons, Gerry

2018: Own + 3 3rds, 1 4th, 1 7th

Before taking over:
QB: Brees, Roethlisberger, Kaepernick, Geno
RB: Hill, Lewis, Ellington, T Mason, B Pierce, K Davis
WR: Adams, Treadwell, Funchess, Braxton Miller, Amendola, T Benjamin, Wheaton, V Jackson
TE: Gates
DL: Atkins, Darius, Armstead, Fowler, Lawson
LB: Freeman, Jack, Ray, Jackson, Ford
DB: Reid, Jenkins,

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Re: Petition Rotoworld/MFL For an EDGE Position IDP

Postby ChocolateCityCurse » Mon May 08, 2017 4:26 pm

Good point... after a very quick look at the stats OLB average more tackles than traditional DE but less sacks (on average), so it should be possible to find a way to balance out the scoring (tackles/sacks points)
The act of players getting yards and touchdowns to help your Fantasy team’s score accumulate is all luck.
The acts of acquiring players and choosing which ones to start is all skill.
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Re: Petition Rotoworld/MFL For an EDGE Position IDP

Postby IDPAuthority » Mon May 08, 2017 4:53 pm

Even with the traditional scoring systems though I would think it has to be a smaller points gaps than it is now:
ILB/4-3LBs vs 3-4 OLB
4-3 DEs vs 3-4 DL and DTs
Orphaned team before 2017 draft
12 team full PPR/balanced IDP scoring/ salary
Start QB,RB,2WR,TE,3WR/RB/TE,K,3DL,3LB,3DB,2DL/LB/DB(40 active)
QB: Stafford, Siemien, Kaepernick
RB: D Murray, Riddick, Powell, Gilislee, D Lewis, Hunt, McNichols
WR: Adams, Coleman, Beasley, Funchess, A Ellington, M Wheaton, C Henderson, Taywan Taylor, I Ford, Zamora
TE: L Green, Fleener, J Smith
K: Gonzalez
DL: Atkins, Dareus, Tuitt, Armstead, A Hicks, Lawson, Jon Allen, McDowell
LB: J Brown, J Hicks, Burfict, Ray, Thompson, J Jenkins, Ford, Beckwith, D Riley, B Brown, Reeves-Maybin
DB: Geathers, Reid, B Jones, Pryor, Maye, Harvey-Clemons, Gerry

2018: Own + 3 3rds, 1 4th, 1 7th

Before taking over:
QB: Brees, Roethlisberger, Kaepernick, Geno
RB: Hill, Lewis, Ellington, T Mason, B Pierce, K Davis
WR: Adams, Treadwell, Funchess, Braxton Miller, Amendola, T Benjamin, Wheaton, V Jackson
TE: Gates
DL: Atkins, Darius, Armstead, Fowler, Lawson
LB: Freeman, Jack, Ray, Jackson, Ford
DB: Reid, Jenkins,

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Re: Petition Rotoworld/MFL For an EDGE Position IDP

Postby bruiser » Mon May 08, 2017 5:38 pm

As long as the NFL uses the DE and OLB position designations for 5th year option/Franchise TAG values, there will be no normalizing this. It is a loophole to be exploited in the meantime.
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Re: Petition Rotoworld/MFL For an EDGE Position IDP

Postby IDPAuthority » Mon May 08, 2017 6:13 pm

Bruiser wrote:
Mon May 08, 2017 5:38 pm
As long as the NFL uses the DE and OLB position designations for 5th year option/Franchise TAG values, there will be no normalizing this. It is a loophole to be exploited in the meantime.
The NFL is very slow to change and catch up with the times.

Why can't the fantasy community be ahead of the curve on this one? Draft experts can't even differentiate between the two in most instances because the differences are pretty minimal at this point.
Orphaned team before 2017 draft
12 team full PPR/balanced IDP scoring/ salary
Start QB,RB,2WR,TE,3WR/RB/TE,K,3DL,3LB,3DB,2DL/LB/DB(40 active)
QB: Stafford, Siemien, Kaepernick
RB: D Murray, Riddick, Powell, Gilislee, D Lewis, Hunt, McNichols
WR: Adams, Coleman, Beasley, Funchess, A Ellington, M Wheaton, C Henderson, Taywan Taylor, I Ford, Zamora
TE: L Green, Fleener, J Smith
K: Gonzalez
DL: Atkins, Dareus, Tuitt, Armstead, A Hicks, Lawson, Jon Allen, McDowell
LB: J Brown, J Hicks, Burfict, Ray, Thompson, J Jenkins, Ford, Beckwith, D Riley, B Brown, Reeves-Maybin
DB: Geathers, Reid, B Jones, Pryor, Maye, Harvey-Clemons, Gerry

2018: Own + 3 3rds, 1 4th, 1 7th

Before taking over:
QB: Brees, Roethlisberger, Kaepernick, Geno
RB: Hill, Lewis, Ellington, T Mason, B Pierce, K Davis
WR: Adams, Treadwell, Funchess, Braxton Miller, Amendola, T Benjamin, Wheaton, V Jackson
TE: Gates
DL: Atkins, Darius, Armstead, Fowler, Lawson
LB: Freeman, Jack, Ray, Jackson, Ford
DB: Reid, Jenkins,

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Re: Petition Rotoworld/MFL For an EDGE Position IDP

Postby The Red Rooster » Wed May 10, 2017 12:19 pm

ESPN's fantasy football site added an "EDGE" designation this year....I assume other sites will follow.

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Re: Petition Rotoworld/MFL For an EDGE Position IDP

Postby ChocolateCityCurse » Thu May 11, 2017 8:26 am

WAOW, good to know! That's promising news... Thanks for sharing.
The act of players getting yards and touchdowns to help your Fantasy team’s score accumulate is all luck.
The acts of acquiring players and choosing which ones to start is all skill.
- David Richard

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Re: Petition Rotoworld/MFL For an EDGE Position IDP

Postby breeze » Fri May 12, 2017 11:43 am

Everyone is upset with Mack being a LB and not giving any thought on how something like this effects IDP.

Making an EDGE position not only is a blurry designation but it essentially doubles the DL pool therefore taking away value of all true DL. Double the supply mean way less demand. Not to mention 3-4 OLB play in coverage much more than 4-3 DEs so they get more tackles and rack up more tackles.

In PPG, only JPP and Wake scored more than Nick Perry and Markus Golden in 2016. In PPG, only 11 DL scored more than Shane Ray last year.

You are increasing the value of 3-4 OL but the damage you are doing is much greater. Making an EDGE decreases all elite DL values significantly and makes DL2/3 practically useless. Bud Dupree, Whitney Mercilus and Dee Ford are now superior assets to guys like Fletcher Cox, Cam Jordan and Leonard Williams.

All the EDGE position is going to do is kill the DL (pass rusher) position as a whole. Doubling the player pool of any position is a disastrous idea.

This is scary similar to changing RB to "Guy that sometimes carries the ball" and it will include all QBs that run over 150 per year as well. You essentially give massive value to guys that didn't have it before while significantly decreasing players that did and increasing supply without changing demand.

I cannot stress how much this is a bad idea for IDP. We need to look at all the factors, not just "I have Khalil Mack and his value went down. I want whatever is best for me!"
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Re: Petition Rotoworld/MFL For an EDGE Position IDP

Postby lukkynumber13 » Fri May 12, 2017 11:49 am

breeze wrote:
Fri May 12, 2017 11:43 am
Everyone is upset with Mack being a LB and not giving any thought on how something like this effects IDP.

Making an EDGE position not only is a blurry designation but it essentially doubles the DL pool therefore taking away value of all true DL. Double the supply mean way less demand. Not to mention 3-4 OLB play in coverage much more than 4-3 DEs so they get more tackles and rack up more tackles.

In PPG, only JPP and Wake scored more than Nick Perry and Markus Golden in 2016. In PPG, only 11 DL scored more than Shane Ray last year.

You are increasing the value of 3-4 OL but the damage you are doing is much greater. Making an EDGE decreases all elite DL values significantly and makes DL2/3 practically useless. Bud Dupree, Whitney Mercilus and Dee Ford are now superior assets to guys like Fletcher Cox, Cam Jordan and Leonard Williams.

All the EDGE position is going to do is kill the DL (pass rusher) position as a whole. Doubling the player pool of any position is a disastrous idea.

This is scary similar to changing RB to "Guy that sometimes carries the ball" and it will include all QBs that run over 150 per year as well. You essentially give massive value to guys that didn't have it before while significantly decreasing players that did and increasing supply without changing demand.

I cannot stress how much this is a bad idea for IDP. We need to look at all the factors, not just "I have Khalil Mack and his value went down. I want whatever is best for me!"
X a million
T1
LUCK, Flacco, J Allen, Beathard
MIXON, AP, Collins, Ajayi, Chase E, R Smith, Blue
EVANS/HILL/DIGGS/KA/HILTON, Sammy, C Davis, A Miller, Tre'Quan, Pascal
GRONK, Vance, Shaheen
-
DL: CHANDLER/FLOWERS/SHORT, Golden, Addison, Okafor, Sheard, Larry O, Malik J
LB: KENDRICKS/WARNER/ZACH C, Schobert, Williamson, R Evans, Walker, KJW, Bynes, Kyzir, Young
DB: ADDAE/AMOS/SIMMONS, John J, Kazee, TJ Mac, Diggs

T2
JIMMY G, Rivers, Eli
GURLEY/DJ/MIXON, Guice, A Jones, Chase E, Darkwa
NUK/AJG/HILL/KA, Landry, Sammy, Hogan, J-Wash, J'Mon, JMatt, David Moore, J Wright
ENGRAM, Doyle, Vance, Higbee, Everett, Maxx, Herndon, Heuerman, Hollister
-
DL: BUCKNER/BARNETT/GRIFFEN/HEYWARD, Golden, Short, Ogbah, Wolfe, Spence, Weatherly, Simon, Wilkerson, Horton
LB: KENDRICKS/BURFICT/WARNER/HITCHENS, Danny T, KJW, Ebukam, Walker, Vince W, M Lee
DB: GEATHERS/POYER/JOHN J, Diggs, Kazee, Maye, Tavon, Hairston, Fuller

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Re: Petition Rotoworld/MFL For an EDGE Position IDP

Postby bot » Fri May 12, 2017 12:02 pm

lukkynumber13 wrote:
Fri May 12, 2017 11:49 am
breeze wrote:
Fri May 12, 2017 11:43 am
Everyone is upset with Mack being a LB and not giving any thought on how something like this effects IDP.

Making an EDGE position not only is a blurry designation but it essentially doubles the DL pool therefore taking away value of all true DL. Double the supply mean way less demand. Not to mention 3-4 OLB play in coverage much more than 4-3 DEs so they get more tackles and rack up more tackles.

In PPG, only JPP and Wake scored more than Nick Perry and Markus Golden in 2016. In PPG, only 11 DL scored more than Shane Ray last year.

You are increasing the value of 3-4 OL but the damage you are doing is much greater. Making an EDGE decreases all elite DL values significantly and makes DL2/3 practically useless. Bud Dupree, Whitney Mercilus and Dee Ford are now superior assets to guys like Fletcher Cox, Cam Jordan and Leonard Williams.

All the EDGE position is going to do is kill the DL (pass rusher) position as a whole. Doubling the player pool of any position is a disastrous idea.

This is scary similar to changing RB to "Guy that sometimes carries the ball" and it will include all QBs that run over 150 per year as well. You essentially give massive value to guys that didn't have it before while significantly decreasing players that did and increasing supply without changing demand.

I cannot stress how much this is a bad idea for IDP. We need to look at all the factors, not just "I have Khalil Mack and his value went down. I want whatever is best for me!"
X a million
X another million. Why are we devaluing IDP more than it already is in a lot of cases? If you do your homework you will be fine. I can say I will not be adding EDGE position in any of the leagues I commission.
12 Team, 1 PT PPR, 1 QB, 2 RB, 2 WR, 1 TE, 3 Flex (RB/WR/TE), 3 DL, 3 LB, 3 DB (Balanced Scoring)
45 man rosters/5 taxi spots

QB - Cousins, Watson
RB - Barkley, Breida, Penny, Lewis, Chubb, Hyde, Cohen, Hines
WR - OBJ, Allen, Baldwin, Hill, Thielen, Davis, DJax, Switzer
TE - Kittle, Cook, Jonnu
DL - Bosa, Dunlap, Hunter, Hunt, Golden, Hughes, C Jones, C Lawson, Weatherly
LB - Wagner, Burfict, Kirksey, D Davis, Warner, Campbell, Milano, Vernon, Burks
DB - Byard, Church, J Johnson, Diggs, Simmons
Taxi - Tre'Quan, Boston Scott, De'Angelo Henderson, Prosise, Taven Bryan

2019 - 1, 2, 2, 3, 3, 4, 4, 4
2020 - 1, 1, 1, 2, 2, 3, 5, 5

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Re: Petition Rotoworld/MFL For an EDGE Position IDP

Postby The Red Rooster » Fri May 12, 2017 12:24 pm

Why not just have LB, DE, DT and EDGE designations with multiple spots for each in starting lineup? I don't see that as devaluing it to the extent you are mentioning...but, I have not given it the thought that you have. Most OLB's would likely be listed as LB/EDGE where as most DE's would probably be listed as DE/EDGE.

Or would this not work?

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Re: Petition Rotoworld/MFL For an EDGE Position IDP

Postby GridironGuerilla » Fri May 12, 2017 12:36 pm

breeze wrote:
Fri May 12, 2017 11:43 am
Everyone is upset with Mack being a LB and not giving any thought on how something like this effects IDP.

Making an EDGE position not only is a blurry designation but it essentially doubles the DL pool therefore taking away value of all true DL. Double the supply mean way less demand. Not to mention 3-4 OLB play in coverage much more than 4-3 DEs so they get more tackles and rack up more tackles.

In PPG, only JPP and Wake scored more than Nick Perry and Markus Golden in 2016. In PPG, only 11 DL scored more than Shane Ray last year.

You are increasing the value of 3-4 OL but the damage you are doing is much greater. Making an EDGE decreases all elite DL values significantly and makes DL2/3 practically useless. Bud Dupree, Whitney Mercilus and Dee Ford are now superior assets to guys like Fletcher Cox, Cam Jordan and Leonard Williams.

All the EDGE position is going to do is kill the DL (pass rusher) position as a whole. Doubling the player pool of any position is a disastrous idea.

This is scary similar to changing RB to "Guy that sometimes carries the ball" and it will include all QBs that run over 150 per year as well. You essentially give massive value to guys that didn't have it before while significantly decreasing players that did and increasing supply without changing demand.

I cannot stress how much this is a bad idea for IDP. We need to look at all the factors, not just "I have Khalil Mack and his value went down. I want whatever is best for me!"
Awesome. Well explained.
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Re: Petition Rotoworld/MFL For an EDGE Position IDP

Postby breeze » Fri May 12, 2017 1:23 pm

The Red Rooster wrote:
Fri May 12, 2017 12:24 pm
Why not just have LB, DE, DT and EDGE designations with multiple spots for each in starting lineup? I don't see that as devaluing it to the extent you are mentioning...but, I have not given it the thought that you have. Most OLB's would likely be listed as LB/EDGE where as most DE's would probably be listed as DE/EDGE.

Or would this not work?
I think it would work but all you are doing is adding 3-4 OLB spots to everyone's lineup. The reason some people want EDGE is so they can play Mack/Beasley/Clowney/etc at DL eventhough they are technically LBs. They want personal benefit, not more lineup slots.
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Re: Petition Rotoworld/MFL For an EDGE Position IDP

Postby The Red Rooster » Fri May 12, 2017 1:47 pm

breeze wrote:
Fri May 12, 2017 1:23 pm
The Red Rooster wrote:
Fri May 12, 2017 12:24 pm
Why not just have LB, DE, DT and EDGE designations with multiple spots for each in starting lineup? I don't see that as devaluing it to the extent you are mentioning...but, I have not given it the thought that you have. Most OLB's would likely be listed as LB/EDGE where as most DE's would probably be listed as DE/EDGE.

Or would this not work?
I think it would work but all you are doing is adding 3-4 OLB spots to everyone's lineup. The reason some people want EDGE is so they can play Mack/Beasley/Clowney/etc at DL eventhough they are technically LBs. They want personal benefit, not more lineup slots.
Gotcha. I just like it the idea of adding them because it would give all of those 3-4 OLB's value...I guess the question is would it be too much value? We run our league on ESPN...and they just added it as an option this year. We wont be instituting this type of change this year, but, we are seriously considering making this change next year just to add to the IDP aspect. Its balanced scoring also, so, a strong IDP lineup, makes a big difference for us. But I also dont want to water the league down (as stated as a concern above). However, not sure if what i mentioned would do that.


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